Bowe Bergdahl freed by Taliban after five years of captivity

Damage said:

This is what I'm talking about when I say let's relax with the hate narratives until the facts are laid out. Reacting like typical republicans won't solve shit.

Click to expand...

Talk about making it political...shut the fuck up already with the democrat and republican bullshit. It's a message board, there's already a ton of facts out there, so why can't we start discussing them? You are the RCF king of jumping to conclusions and pouncing early before all the facts are laid out. :chuckles:

http://www.realcavsfans.com/showthread.php?14128-Palin-Affair-confirmed

http://www.realcavsfans.com/showthr...After-Arkansas-Weapons-Test-Causes-Mass-Death

Maximus said:

Talk about making it political...shut the fuck up already with the democrat and republican bullshit. It's a message board, there's already a ton of facts out there, so why can't we start discussing them? You are the RCF king of jumping to conclusions and pouncing early before all the facts are laid out. :chuckles:

http://www.realcavsfans.com/showthread.php?14128-Palin-Affair-confirmed

http://www.realcavsfans.com/showthr...After-Arkansas-Weapons-Test-Causes-Mass-Death

Click to expand...

What facts? I haven't seen any facts other than he was under the Taliban's control for 5 years. I really don't care if you believe one way or the other, but throwing out words like traitor or treason is, at this point, dangerous speak.

Per your resources:

The first one was 6 god damn years ago. Since then I've learned to look at every and all angles. Also, aren't you the one who wanted to drone Hot Toddy?

The 2nd one...:chuckles: C'mon, everyone was creeped out about those stupid fucking birds. Did they ever figure that shit out?

So 2 examples makes me the king of jumping to conclusions? Crown me, simp. I can count more than that from you just in this thread.

Maximus said:

Talk about making it political...shut the fuck up already with the democrat and republican bullshit. It's a message board, there's already a ton of facts out there, so why can't we start discussing them? You are the RCF king of jumping to conclusions and pouncing early before all the facts are laid out. :chuckles:

http://www.realcavsfans.com/showthread.php?14128-Palin-Affair-confirmed

http://www.realcavsfans.com/showthr...After-Arkansas-Weapons-Test-Causes-Mass-Death

Click to expand...

How the fuck did you remember the Palin one?

And Damage, if you're not the King of it then you're the Mullah of it.

The Oi said:

How the fuck did you remember the Palin one?

And Damage, if you're not the King of it then you're the Mullah of it.

Click to expand...

Let's start a band

Muslim Max, Mullah ______, and Jewy Jig

In case anyone is interested, this is an incredible speech given by Gen. John Kelly, who was a major I worked pretty closely with when I was a tactics instructor back in the 80's. Unlike most majors who are the butt of jokes, Maj. Kelly had something that all of us company-grade types really respected. That "follow him to hell" quality. He recently was promoted to four star rank, and the Corps only has a few of those. Anyway, his speech about two Marines who died at a roadblock is as close at it gets to essential reading for someone who want to understand the ethos.

Everybody Should Read General John Kelly's Speech About Two Marines In The Path Of A Truck Bomb

Five years ago, two Marines from two different walks of life who had literally just met were told to stand guard in front of their outpost's entry control point.

Minutes later, they were staring down a big blue truck packed with explosives. With this particular shred of hell bearing down on them, they stood their ground.

Heck, they even leaned in.

I had heard the story many times, personally. But until today I had never heard Marine Lt. Gen. John Kelly's telling of it to a packed house in 2010. Just four days following the death of his own son in combat, Kelly eulogized two other sons in an unforgettable manner. From Kelly's speech:


Two years ago when I was the Commander of all U.S. and Iraqi forces, in fact, the 22nd of April 2008, two Marine infantry battalions, 1/9 “The Walking Dead,” and 2/8 were switching out in Ramadi. One battalion in the closing days of their deployment going home very soon, the other just starting its seven-month combat tour.

Two Marines, Corporal Jonathan Yale and Lance Corporal Jordan Haerter, 22 and 20 years old respectively, one from each battalion, were assuming the watch together at the entrance gate of an outpost that contained a makeshift barracks housing 50 Marines.

The same broken down ramshackle building was also home to 100 Iraqi police, also my men and our allies in the fight against the terrorists in Ramadi, a city until recently the most dangerous city on earth and owned by Al Qaeda. Yale was a dirt poor mixed-race kid from Virginia with a wife and daughter, and a mother and sister who lived with him and he supported as well. He did this on a yearly salary of less than $23,000. Haerter, on the other hand, was a middle class white kid from Long Island.

They were from two completely different worlds. Had they not joined the Marines they would never have met each other, or understood that multiple America’s exist simultaneously depending on one’s race, education level, economic status, and where you might have been born. But they were Marines, combat Marines, forged in the same crucible of Marine training, and because of this bond they were brothers as close, or closer, than if they were born of the same woman.

The mission orders they received from the sergeant squad leader I am sure went something like: “Okay you two clowns, stand this post and let no unauthorized personnel or vehicles pass.” “You clear?” I am also sure Yale and Haerter then rolled their eyes and said in unison something like: “Yes Sergeant,” with just enough attitude that made the point without saying the words, “No kidding sweetheart, we know what we’re doing.” They then relieved two other Marines on watch and took up their post at the entry control point of Joint Security Station Nasser, in the Sophia section of Ramadi, al Anbar, Iraq.

A few minutes later a large blue truck turned down the alley way—perhaps 60-70 yards in length—and sped its way through the serpentine of concrete jersey walls. The truck stopped just short of where the two were posted and detonated, killing them both catastrophically. Twenty-four brick masonry houses were damaged or destroyed. A mosque 100 yards away collapsed. The truck’s engine came to rest two hundred yards away knocking most of a house down before it stopped.

Our explosive experts reckoned the blast was made of 2,000 pounds of explosives. Two died, and because these two young infantrymen didn’t have it in their DNA to run from danger, they saved 150 of their Iraqi and American brothers-in-arms.

When I read the situation report about the incident a few hours after it happened I called the regimental commander for details as something about this struck me as different. Marines dying or being seriously wounded is commonplace in combat. We expect Marines regardless of rank or MOS to stand their ground and do their duty, and even die in the process, if that is what the mission takes. But this just seemed different.

The regimental commander had just returned from the site and he agreed, but reported that there were no American witnesses to the event—just Iraqi police. I figured if there was any chance of finding out what actually happened and then to decorate the two Marines to acknowledge their bravery, I’d have to do it as a combat award that requires two eye-witnesses and we figured the bureaucrats back in Washington would never buy Iraqi statements. If it had any chance at all, it had to come under the signature of a general officer.

I traveled to Ramadi the next day and spoke individually to a half-dozen Iraqi police all of whom told the same story. The blue truck turned down into the alley and immediately sped up as it made its way through the serpentine. They all said, “We knew immediately what was going on as soon as the two Marines began firing.” The Iraqi police then related that some of them also fired, and then to a man, ran for safety just prior to the explosion.

All survived. Many were injured … some seriously. One of the Iraqis elaborated and with tears welling up said, “They’d run like any normal man would to save his life.”

What he didn’t know until then, he said, and what he learned that very instant, was that Marines are not normal. Choking past the emotion he said, “Sir, in the name of God no sane man would have stood there and done what they did.”

“No sane man.”

“They saved us all.”

What we didn’t know at the time, and only learned a couple of days later after I wrote a summary and submitted both Yale and Haerter for posthumous Navy Crosses, was that one of our security cameras, damaged initially in the blast, recorded some of the suicide attack. It happened exactly as the Iraqis had described it. It took exactly six seconds from when the truck entered the alley until it detonated.

You can watch the last six seconds of their young lives. Putting myself in their heads I supposed it took about a second for the two Marines to separately come to the same conclusion about what was going on once the truck came into their view at the far end of the alley. Exactly no time to talk it over, or call the sergeant to ask what they should do. Only enough time to take half an instant and think about what the sergeant told them to do only a few minutes before: “ … let no unauthorized personnel or vehicles pass.”

The two Marines had about five seconds left to live. It took maybe another two seconds for them to present their weapons, take aim, and open up. By this time the truck was half-way through the barriers and gaining speed the whole time. Here, the recording shows a number of Iraqi police, some of whom had fired their AKs, now scattering like the normal and rational men they were—some running right past the Marines. They had three seconds left to live.

For about two seconds more, the recording shows the Marines’ weapons firing non-stop…the truck’s windshield exploding into shards of glass as their rounds take it apart and tore in to the body of the son-of-a-bitch who is trying to get past them to kill their brothers—American and Iraqi—bedded down in the barracks totally unaware of the fact that their lives at that moment depended entirely on two Marines standing their ground. If they had been aware, they would have know they were safe … because two Marines stood between them and a crazed suicide bomber.

The recording shows the truck careening to a stop immediately in front of the two Marines. In all of the instantaneous violence Yale and Haerter never hesitated. By all reports and by the recording, they never stepped back. They never even started to step aside. They never even shifted their weight. With their feet spread shoulder width apart, they leaned into the danger, firing as fast as they could work their weapons. They had only one second left to live.

The truck explodes. The camera goes blank. Two young men go to their God.

Six seconds.

Not enough time to think about their families, their country, their flag, or about their lives or their deaths, but more than enough time for two very brave young men to do their duty … into eternity. That is the kind of people who are on watch all over the world tonight—for you.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/john-kellys-speech-about-marines-in-ramadi-2013-6#ixzz33bnKtszn

Click to expand...

Damage said:

What facts? I haven't seen any facts other than he was under the Taliban's control for 5 years. I really don't care if you believe one way or the other, but throwing out words like traitor or treason is, at this point, dangerous speak.

Click to expand...

You've used the word traitor twice in this thread...i've said it zero times.


You haven't seen ANY other facts other than he was under Taliban's control for 5 years? Not one? You didn't hear that he mailed home his computer to his parents right before he disappeared? That he left a letter to his brigade that he "was leaving to start a new life and didn't want to fight for America"? That he left behind his weapon and body armor? That in 2010, the Pentagon declared Bergdahl a deserter? That members of his brigade were pressured to sign non-disclosure agreements forbidding them from discussing Bergdahl's disappearance?

Here's some posts from his Spartan Brigade's facebook page...probably just racist republicans.
-“I say we welcome him home with a firing squad”
-“He’s a piece of trash and everyone from [Fort Richardson] knows it the only person less American than that man is the president for giving up 5 hvt’s [High-Value Targets]”
-“Now he can stand trial for deserting his post”
-“Do you know how many families never saw their loved ones because of him?”

https://www.facebook.com/SpartanBrigade



Again, all i'm asking is why did we give up 5 high level targets for a guy that we declared a deserter 4 years ago?
Why did Obama violate the law by not giving Congress 30 days notice of the trade...they only got 5 days notice. What was the rush? Why the need to violate the law and not get permission from Congress? We knew where he was...he wasn't going anywhere.
Why was Susan Rice making another Sunday round of lies? She said "he served the United Stated with honor and distinction". What an insult to those in the military that really do serve with honor and distinction.
Why all the lies? Why is she twisting the facts and trying to sell us something that isn't true. It's just like Benghazi.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/BdGe0uP7W-c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Maximus said:

You've used the word traitor twice in this thread...i've said it zero times.


You haven't seen ANY other facts other than he was under Taliban's control for 5 years? Not one? You didn't hear that he mailed home his computer to his parents right before he disappeared? That he left a letter to his brigade that he "was leaving to start a new life and didn't want to fight for America"? That he left behind his weapon and body armor? That in 2010, the Pentagon declared Bergdahl a deserter?

Here's some posts from his Spartan Brigade's facebook page...probably just racist republicans.
-“I say we welcome him home with a firing squad”
-“He’s a piece of trash and everyone from [Fort Richardson] knows it the only person less American than that man is the president for giving up 5 hvt’s [High-Value Targets]”
-“Now he can stand trial for deserting his post”
-“Do you know how many families never saw their loved ones because of him?”

https://www.facebook.com/SpartanBrigade



Again, all i'm asking is why did we give up 5 high level targets for a guy that we declared a deserter 4 years ago?
Why were members of his brigade pressured to sign non-disclosure agreements forbidding them from discussing Bergdahl's disappearance?
Why did Obama violate the law by not giving Congress 30 days notice of the trade...they only got 5 days notice. What was the rush? Why the need to violate the law and not get permission from Congress? We knew where he was...he wasn't going anywhere.
Why was Susan Rice making another Sunday round of lies? She said "he served the United Stated with honor and distinction". What an insult to those in the military that really do serve with honor and distinction.
Why all the lies? Why is she twisting the facts and trying to sell us something that isn't true. It's just like Benghazi.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/BdGe0uP7W-c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

Click to expand...

You are asking a lot of questions I'm wondering myself. This isn't a black and white case (we didn't just hand over 5 HVTs for 1 deserter or whatever the fuck he is). There are so many geo-political/economical moving parts at play, shit we will never unearth.

.
“I say we welcome him home with a firing squad” - That's sweet. Those facts you laid out still doesn't make him a traitor - it makes him a deserter. The 2 are mutually exclusive. (the traitor and treason epitaphs have been eschewed all over the fucking place, I wasn't just basing it on RCF).

Team Psycho lied. A lot. Clinton lied. As did Bush Sr. And Reagan. And LBJ. What Susan Rice said wasn't bad because it was a lie - it was bad because it couldn't have been worded more poorly. She shouldn't have said shit. Just stick the facts, keep emotional sentiments out of it, and shut the fuck up.

Just to clarify, the Pentagon Report did not declare that he was a deserter. That's a specific legal term, and they wouldn't declare him a "deserter" unless he was formally charged, which he wasn't. However, they did say that he abandoned his post voluntarily, and the other facts they found -- all the stuff that made it look like he had no intention of returning -- would be very strong evidence that he likely could be prosecuted as a deserter.

Administratively, someone who is absent for 30 days without leave is carried as a "deserter". However, in his case, confusion over whether or not he was captured would likely have precluded that presumption.

But all that mumbo-jumbo aside, I don't think it changes the reality that to most reasonable observers, he abandoned his post voluntarily without an intention of returning.

If he is found guilty of desertion, then he'd be subject to the death penalty (hence the firing squad reference) if it is determined that this happened during a time of war. In any case, I don't blame the guys he abandoned for saying he should face a firing squad.

^great eulogy. Gave me the chills...

I spoke to a colleague of mine who is a marine, and we talked about all of the facts that might never be known:
1. Bergdahl might have intelligence and it's being utilized right now.
2. There might be some other unspoken agreements between the "bad guys" and the US, not just the prison exchanges. E.g. - we release these 5 guys, then you keep attacks from your people off of our soil.
3. The 5 released guys aren't necessarily safe. They might meet a fate far worse than Gitmo, and they might not be "released" totally, per se.

I haven't had the time to read the ins-and-outs, but there's quite a few possibilities out there to consider. I think it's fair to say that, on the surface, this is a real head scratcher, so my next line of thought isn't "what a blunder?!?" but more "what else don't we know?"

Damage said:

You are asking a lot of questions I'm wondering myself.

Click to expand...

Then why are you mad at me again?

.

“I say we welcome him home with a firing squad” - That's sweet. Those facts you laid out still doesn't make him a traitor - it makes him a deserter.

Click to expand...

I am not saying he is a traitor. I did not lay out those facts to argue he is a traitor. His brigade members think he's a traitor.

Team Psycho lied. A lot. Clinton lied. As did Bush Sr. And Reagan. And LBJ.

Click to expand...

They did it, so you are ok with Obama doing it?

What Susan Rice said wasn't bad because it was a lie - it was bad because it couldn't have been worded more poorly. She shouldn't have said shit. Just stick the facts, keep emotional sentiments out of it, and shut the fuck up.

Click to expand...

I agree with that.

Maximus said:

Then why are you mad at me again?

.


I am not saying he is a traitor. I did not lay out those facts to argue he is a traitor. His brigade members think he's a traitor.




They did, so you are ok with Obama doing it?




I agree with that.

Click to expand...

I still suck at quoting.

1. I'm never, ever mad at you.
2. I never said you said he was (if I insinuated it, it was poor wording on my part). His troops saying that cums as no surprise at all. I would probably feel the same exact way. *EDIT: I did insinuate it. My bad.
3. Fuck no. But the older I get and the more I learn about myself and the game I'm living in, it's much more difficult for me to get as riled up as I use to, considering it's all the same fucking shit, just different teams.
4. :inlove:

The Human Q-Tip said:

Just to clarify, the Pentagon Report did not declare that he was a deserter. That's a specific legal term, and they wouldn't declare him a "deserter" unless he was formally charged, which he wasn't. However, they did say that he abandoned his post voluntarily, and the other facts they found -- all the stuff that made it look like he had no intention of returning -- would be very strong evidence that he likely could be prosecuted as a deserter.

Administratively, someone who is absent for 30 days without leave is carried as a "deserter". However, in his case, confusion over whether or not he was captured would likely have precluded that presumption.

But all that mumbo-jumbo aside, I don't think it changes the reality that to most reasonable observers, he abandoned his post voluntarily without an intention of returning.

If he is found guilty of desertion, then he'd be subject to the death penalty (hence the firing squad reference) if it is determined that this happened during a time of war. In any case, I don't blame the guys he abandoned for saying he should face a firing squad.

Click to expand...

I spoke to soon, If I'm putting myself in their shoes, I would definitely say the same thing.

Damage said:

You are asking a lot of questions I'm wondering myself. This isn't a black and white case (we didn't just hand over 5 HVTs for 1 deserter or whatever the fuck he is). There are so many geo-political/economical moving parts at play, shit we will never unearth.

Click to expand...

What does any of that have to do with him abandoning his post and likely deserting, though? That part seems rather clear, with most of the facts known. I don't see what Susan Rice being an idiot or any of the "geopolitical implication" have to do with his conduct.

Bergdahl's team leader: Intercepted radio chatter said he sought talks with the Taliban

(CNN) - Former Army Sgt. Evan Buetow was the team leader with Bowe Bergdahl the night Bergdahl disappeared.

"Bergdahl is a deserter, and he's not a hero," says Buetow. "He needs to answer for what he did."

Within days of his disappearance, says Buetow, teams monitoring radio chatter and cell phone communications intercepted an alarming message: The American is in Yahya Khel (a village two miles away). He's looking for someone who speaks English so he can talk to the Taliban.

"I heard it straight from the interpreter's lips as he heard it over the radio," said Buetow. "There's a lot more to this story than a soldier walking away."

The Army will review the case of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl "in a comprehensive, coordinated effort," Secretary of the Army John McHugh said Tuesday.

The review will include speaking with Bergdahl "to better learn from him the circumstances of his disappearance and captivity," he said.

The night Bergdahl disappeared, says Buetow, the platoon was at a small outpost, consisting of two bunkers and a perimeter of military trucks. Buetow was in one of the bunkers, and Bergdahl was supposed to be in a tent by one of the trucks.

Then a call came through on the radio.

"I'll never forget that line, 'Has anyone seen Bergdahl?'" says Buetow.

Firsthand accounts from soldiers in his platoon say Bergdahl disappeared while he was on guard duty.

Buetow says Bergdahl was about to go on guard duty, but when a fellow soldier went to wake him, he was not in his tent. He had left behind his weapons, his bullet-proof vest, and night vision gear.

"I immediately knew, I said, 'He walked away. He walked away,'" said Buetow.

Bergdahl walked off the observation post with nothing more than a compass, a knife, water, a digital camera and a diary, according to firsthand accounts from soldiers in his platoon.

Read: Fellow soldiers call Bowe Bergdahl a deserter, not a hero

Buetow was involved in the immediate search for Bergdahl, pushing a patrol into a nearby local village.

"Immediately as we left the base, two small boys walked up to us, and they told us that they saw an American crawling in the weeds by himself," said the former Army sergeant. The search followed that lead, and others, for months.

"For 60 days or more, I remember, just straight, all we did was search for Bergdahl," said Buetow, "essentially chasing a ghost because we never came up with anything."

At least six soldiers were killed in subsequent searches for him, according to soldiers involved in those operations.

The Pentagon was not able to provide details on specific operations in which any soldiers were killed during that time were involved.

Buetow says even though those operations were not "directed missions" to search for Bergdahl, there was an underlying premise of acting on intelligence to find the missing soldier.

"The fact of the matter is, when those soldiers were killed, they would not have been where they were at if Bergdahl hadn't left," says Buetow. "Bergdahl leaving changed the mission."

Many soldiers in Bergdahl's platoon said attacks seemed to increase against the United States in Paktika province in the days and weeks following his disappearance.

"Following his disappearance, IEDs started going off directly under the trucks. They were getting perfect hits every time. Their ambushes were very calculated, very methodical," said Buetow.

It was "very suspicious," says Buetow, noting that Bergdahl knew sensitive information about the movement of U.S. trucks, the weaponry on those trucks, and how soldiers would react to attacks.

"We were incredibly worried" that Bergdahl was giving up information, either under torture, or otherwise, says Buetow.

President Barack Obama said Tuesday that no matter what the circumstances of an American soldier's capture, the United States has a duty to get him or her back.

"It's great that he’s back and that we can have that very small victory, if you can even call it a victory. Because I believe what we gave up for that - we gave up a lot for what we got back," says Buetow.

For more of our interview with former Army Sgt. Evan Buetow, click here, or check out the video below.

<iframe width='416' height='234' src='http://www.cnn.com/video/api/embed.html#/video/world/2014/06/03/lead-intv-buetow-night-bowe-bergdahl-disappeared.cnn' frameborder='0'></iframe>

The Human Q-Tip said:

What does any of that have to do with him abandoning his post and likely deserting, though? That part seems rather clear, with most of the facts known. I don't see what Susan Rice being an idiot or any of the "geopolitical implication" have to do with his conduct.

Click to expand...

It doesn't have anything to do with his conduct. I was referring to the Obama lying.

Also, where did the whole he was kidnapped shit cum from? He got kidnapped from his post, he abandoned his post and THEN got kidnapped? I also heard he went out drinking with some Afghani's and then got "captured" by the Taliban