The Brian Hoyer thread...

macbdog said:

Uh, aren't we stereotyping? He went to Stanford, has a degree in science technology, and is originally from New Jersey. So obviously he would be working in a car wash.

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Binkster said:

I'm frankly perplexed as to why you're so unwilling to give Hoyer any credit at all. In fact, you have been going to great lengths to discredit him several times.

Austin is a 30 year old vet coming off of injury and made his last Pro Bowl 4 years ago, was cut and remained unsigned until mid-May. So at the time, yes, he was considered a free agent scrub.

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The list of free agent receivers who got better contracts than Austin is entertainingly putrid... Ted Ginn, Brandon LeFell, Andre Caldwell... Devin Hester!

Players on low one year contracts like Austin: Lance Moore, Jason Avent, Darrius Hayward-Bey. This is the bottom of the talent pool, people.

speaking of Hawkins.. he is tied for 7th in catches of 20+ yards. Tied for 6th in catches for 1st downs. 3rd in targets. 8th in receptions.

Miles Austin meanwhile has 2 touchdowns and is transitioning nicely into a short range possession outlet receiver with 14 receptions on 19 targets.

as far as the browns loss. 2 missed field goals and a rookie pass interference by Gilbert were the big factors.

so far Cundiff has hit the goal post on two kicks.. that in combination with the block has me undecided if the special teams protection is what it should be or Cundiff is losing his mojo. I think its the former.

Hoyer still had two possessions where the Browns just needed a first down

Ravens seemed confident they could stop the Browns even after two failed field goal drives otherwise they would of went for it on 4th down to try and take the lead as opposed to kicking a field goal and hoping on a short field on their next possesion

I'm not really sure what this WR debate is all about.

This is Kyle Shanahan's offense, guys. This isn't a knock on Hoyer at all, he just doesn't need to make a ton of tough throws to put up respectable numbers. Shanahan's offense does a great job of getting receivers into space, and as long as the receiver has the ability to physically catch the ball, you're usually going to get a pass or two thrown your way.

I think our offensive futility over the past few....well, forever, has made us think we need big names at skill positions to succeed-- and we don't. Not saying we shouldn't upgrade the talent of the WR's in the future, I just don't think they're band of misfits and outcasts as they're portrayed because the system sets them up to succeed.

Binkster said:

I'm frankly perplexed as to why you're so unwilling to give Hoyer any credit at all. In fact, you have been going to great lengths to discredit him several times.

Austin is a 30 year old vet coming off of injury and made his last Pro Bowl 4 years ago, was cut and remained unsigned until mid-May. So at the time, yes, he was considered a free agent scrub.

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Whether or not Austin was considered "a scrub" during the offseason (which I don't believe is true anyway) has absolutely nothing to do with what he has contributed on the field with Hoyer as QB. And I don't see why pointing out that Austin has been good is a slam, in any sense, on Hoyer.

If you're trying to argue that our WR's actually suck as a way of building up Hoyer, that's a fail because they don't suck. Pointing that out isn't a refusal to give Hoyer credit. It's simply correcting a flawed argument.

Randolphkeys said:

The list of free agent receivers who got better contracts than Austin is entertainingly putrid... Ted Ginn, Brandon LeFell, Andre Caldwell... Devin Hester!

Players on low one year contracts like Austin: Lance Moore, Jason Avent, Darrius Hayward-Bey. This is the bottom of the talent pool, people.

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Austin's problem wasn't a lack of talent -- it was his injury history that made teams reluctant to make a commitment to him. He had 10 receptions in his first game last year, then pulled his hammy and the rest of the season was a waste. He was essentially a hit or miss signing, and we've been fortunate to this point to have gotten a good Austin rather than the bad one.

It's really odd that people are trying to downgrade the WR's on the basis that they were a huge question mark prior to the season. You'd think the better way to judge WR's is how they have actually played during the season.

Tornicade said:

speaking of Hawkins.. he is tied for 7th in catches of 20+ yards. Tied for 6th in catches for 1st downs. 3rd in targets. 8th in receptions.

Miles Austin meanwhile has 2 touchdowns and is transitioning nicely into a short range possession outlet receiver with 14 receptions on 19 targets.

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These are serviceable WR's. Hawkins has been a pleasant surprise and I think the TD's are going to start rolling in when Cameron is back 100% (has to be the reason he wasn't involved more in the passing attack. Only 3 targets?) and Gordon, of course. If Miles can play the entire year how he has been these past 2 games, we are going to have a nice passing attack, especially in the RZ.

Tornicade said:

as far as the browns loss. 2 missed field goals and a rookie pass interference by Gilbert were the big factors.

so far Cundiff has hit the goal post on two kicks.. that in combination with the block has me undecided if the special teams protection is what it should be or Cundiff is losing his mojo. I think its the former.

Hoyer still had two possessions where the Browns just needed a first down

Ravens seemed confident they could stop the Browns even after two failed field goal drives otherwise they would of went for it on 4th down to try and take the lead as opposed to kicking a field goal and hoping on a short field on their next possesion

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low snaps and I think he is also just slacking. You can blame it on Winn for letting someone around him, but they also stacked his side and had a man in front of him. Why wasn't someone else over there for the shift?

You either needed to throw it 3 times or run it 3 times in a row. The play calling was awful near the end of the game.

Things are looking up no matter how negative people want to be. It is still the Browns, making mistakes at key parts of the game. We can only hope to fix those and keep our composure. Our 2 losses have been to teams we usually are a lock to lose against, by a total of 5 points and we have 5 winnable games (revenge against Steelers) ahead.

We will know where we truly stand in a few weeks.

Hoyer for President.

I'm just celebrating the underdog story. Everyone expected the offensive line to be formidable, and a zone blocking scheme allows the quality of an offensive line be the star of the play calling. I've always thought the quality of the line has more to do with a running back's statistics than the quality of the running back, and this three headed monster will end up supporting that idea.

But the undrafted QB beating out the celebrity, the wide receivers nobody wanted to draft unless it was for special teams, the blocking tight ends, college running backs nobody paid any attention to in Terrence West and Isaiah Crowell... these are all amazing stories adding up to an improbable narrative. The national coverage should start taking notice if the Browns pile up a few more wins.

I'm not sure why everyone is freaking out about Hoyer and the offense. It's being held together with bubble gum and duct tape but we've been in every single game we've played this year.

Go back to the pre-season and name our top 3 weapons on offense. Gordon, Cameron, Tate - they've all been hurt and missed games. Yet, we've still been within a FG of winning every game. We're the only offense in the league yet to turn the ball over. Of course there have been missed opportunities and there are still things to work on during the bye but given how decimated we've been and given the quality of opponents, I won't complain.

Now, feast your eyes on this:

@ Tennessee
vs Pittsburgh
@ Jacksonville
vs Oakland
vs Tampa Bay

That laugher of a 5 game stretch is what awaits us after the bye. If our offense improves even just a little bit during the off week and gets its timing down better so that they're not having to fall trying to catch home run balls, we're going to be favored or close to it in all 5 of those games. After that, we're at the Bengals (which will be tough), at home vs. the Texans and then we get Josh Gordon back which is HUGE.

Way too early to start nitpicking and panicking... the arrow is pointed straight up for the Browns.

I would expect we will be favored in all of those games, and we may be a two score favorite by the time that Tampa game rolls around.

This team is very close right now. Minor changes to the defense, more time in the offensive system, and getting healthy over this next week is going to make us much better, IMO.

Or it should, if Pettine is the coach I think he is. If he's another in the long line of bad coaches, then we'll come out flat, again, and fail miserably in this stretch of games.

Am I the only one who thinks Johnny won't ever be half the quarterback that Hoyer is?

Hoyer is a top 10 quarterback right now. Sure he's made some mistakes but he's also played better than so-called franchise quarterbacks like Jay Cutler.

I know it's strange to draft a quarterback expecting the previous one to fail and then he not fail but that's exactly what is happening.

Brian Hoyer is not a top 10 QB.

While I appreciate what he's done over the first three games, but I'm begging all of you not to turn him into something he isn't.

It's just unfair to him.

JSS2306 said:

Am I the only one who thinks Johnny won't ever be half the quarterback that Hoyer is?

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He might not be, but the least we can do is develop him and see if he can become a legitimate NFL quarterback.

And as boobie said, Hoyer is not even remotely a top ten NFL QB. He's above average, to be sure, but he's not elite. Maybe he gets better and becomes a top ten guy, but there are easily ten guys I would take over him right now if I were either trying to win now or build a franchise going forward.

AZ_ said:

Brian Hoyer is not a top 10 QB.

While I appreciate what he's done over the first three games, but I'm begging all of you not to turn him into something he isn't.

It's just unfair to him.

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He's turned this receiving core into something they're not. Yes, it's early to claim anything at this point but he has impressed. His understanding of the play's at hand and ability to get rid of the ball without turning it over should not be brushed to the side. He's doing exactly what he needs to do although inconsistent in crunch time.

Even then, he's the least to blame. I'm not going to anoint him, but even the most stringent Johnny supporters have little ammo at this point.

Jack Brickman said:

He might not be, but the least we can do is develop him and see if he can become a legitimate NFL quarterback.

And as boobie said, Hoyer is not even remotely a top ten NFL QB. He's above average, to be sure, but he's not elite. Maybe he gets better and becomes a top ten guy, but there are easily ten guys I would take over him right now if I were either trying to win now or build a franchise going forward.

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No he is definitely a top 10 quarterback right now when placing his play in the context of 3 games. It's 3 games. I'm still iffy, but the man has played better at this position than any other we've had since the return.

AZ_ said:

Brian Hoyer is not a top 10 QB/QUOTE]

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Who said he was?

He's a good, solid QB. Probably tops out around top 15, and that's pushing it. You can win game with him at QB though. Unlike past guys.