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JR Smith

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
I was very high on Dion, but after letting everything sink in, this feels like the right move for this team. Could Waiters still blow up, or at least prove to be a viable starter? Sure. However, we acquired a guy who is a solid catch and shoot player, who has historically been above average at providing bench scoring, a young wing who can be a plus wing defender, but needs to find some consistency on both ends, plus an additional asset for a future deal. Shumpert's ceiling is lower than Waiters's, but I will still be interested to see if he can progress as a player and carve out a niche on this team.
 
Smith is not an upgrade over waiters.

He takes bad shots and is a defensive liability.

So he is Dion Waiters? :chuckle:

Regardless, if you look at the trade as Dion for Smith, yes, it's an awful deal for us. If you look at it as trading Dion for two rotation guys and a first-rounder, it looks a lot better.
 
I hadn't seen this before. An even better catchphrase than 'men lie, women lie..."?

18fd7q8hk31spjpg.jpg
 
So he is Dion Waiters? :chuckle:

Regardless, if you look at the trade as Dion for Smith, yes, it's an awful deal for us. If you look at it as trading Dion for two rotation guys and a first-rounder, it looks a lot better.

I don't look at it incorrectly as others seem to think... "He must be thinking this is only Dion for Smith..."

I'm looking at the totality of the trade.

And yes, you're right -- JR Smith right now, is Dion Waiters, right now. Now there's folks here who are saying Dion Waiters is just as much a known commodity and has as much room to grow as JR Smith, which is very little. If that's what you think, then okay, I get it. But if you believe Dion Waiters had ample room to develop and improve, then the trade doesn't make sense.

Again, that's really the last of it.

I'm not going to root against these guys. But I seem to be doing this almost every other year. We had this conversation after the Deng trade which I said was a bad idea and got blasted for. Or the Shaq trade which I said was a fucking joke, or several others that to me, didn't seem to make a great deal of sense considering the direction the team should be going.

It always seems this front office, whether it be Grant or Griffin, is merely reacting to events during the season rather than having a workable plan for the future.

We gambled on so much...

That Dion would be better than Barnes or Drummond...
That Tristan would learn to play basketball, even with all of his supposed athleticism.
That Luol Deng would transition well from Chicago to Cleveland considering we have no idea how to run an NBA organization.
That Spencer Hawes could get us into the playoffs.
That draft picks don't mean anything when LeBron James is on his way.
That the second round of the NBA draft is meaningless.
That Anderson Varejao would play a season of basketball (wtf...).
That LeBron James' friends could play.
That a rookie coach who may be an old dog who can't learn new tricks, and doesn't understand the NBA, would lead us to the Finals in his first year in the NBA.
That a detoxed LeBron James could do what he did in Miami.
That Kevin Love would attempt to learn to play defense.

Again... I've not been a debbie downer over the season.. I said I'd give Blatt a chance, and give this front office a chance. But we're so far into the season, and just like last year, I gotta call it how I see it. This was a bad trade.

And the reason it's a bad trade is because we should have had the foresight to know if Dion would work out or not since we've had him for several years already.

Knowing that we should've sold high, not at his lowest possible value in his career. People will ignore this point though.... so, then we have nothing to talk about. My problem is with management's inability to value or develop assets correctly. Our inability to utilize the draft. Our lack of scouting. Our lack of developmental coaches. And no system in place to mold players.

At best, Waiters was a failed experiment, a shitty gamble to draft a player who could create his own shot playing in a redundant role with Kyrie Irving. This gamble made no sense considering who was on the board. Again, the front office not making smart decisions. But to this day, folks on this board still shit on Andre Drummond to backup the decision to draft Waiters. It's ridiculous.

But anyway a Byron Scott, Mike Brown, and now a David Blatt later, we blame Waiters for not developing himself, rather than the system (think Kawhi) developing him. And he gets shit on on his way out the door; not just by posters here but by the organization (see: The Bullshit Whisperer).

I'm done with the debate. I just wanted to voice my viewpoint without it being paraphrased and warped to fit someone else's post. I don't begrudge anyone who doesn't agree with me -- that's cool, to each his own.

We'll now see how Smith and Shumpert (whenever he plays) helps the Cavaliers. And we'll also see how Waiters helps the Thunder. But this team, our team, from the top to the bottom, looks like a fucking dumpster fire.
 
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Smith does appear to be the throw in with regard to this trade but I think the organization just grew tired of trying to make it work with a guy we should never have drafted. They just made a HUGE commitment to Kyrie Irving looking toward the future. He and Dion have been fighting for the same role for years and it's been a one way fight.

Smith is not going to come here and bicker with Kyrie Irving over his role. He has proven to accept it and has been proven to flourish in it. The word flourish does not exist in NY right now so as far as I'm concerned, you can just throw away his stats this season. He's a guy that's going to see a lot of quality looks and he'll have a defined role. He's also somebody that you could plug in the starting lineup if injuries knock out some of our depth. If you look at his game logs there are some pretty impressive scoring outbursts from him if you discount this season.
 
Kelly Dwyer- He (JR Smith) acts like he was just traded for Jim Cleamons. RT @netw3rk: No one has ever been more upset to leave a five win team than JR Smith

Welp...seems happy to be here...
 
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Welp...seems happy to be here...

Not sure... He feels undervalued, or he just wanted to play for his hometown team?

Maybe his head isn't in the game... Only 1 or 2 reasons I could think that one would prefer to play on a bad team in a cold but nice city and that's a) bitches, b) moar bitches.
 
Not sure... He feels undervalued, or he just wanted to play for his hometown team?

Maybe his head isn't in the game... Only 1 or 2 reasons I could think that one would prefer to play on a bad team in a cold but nice city and that's a) bitches, b) moar bitches.

gonna go with c) teh biddies
 
I don't look at it incorrectly as others seem to think... "He must be thinking this is only Dion for Smith..."

I'm looking at the totality of the trade.

And yes, you're right -- JR Smith right now, is Dion Waiters, right now. Now there's folks here who are saying Dion Waiters is just as much a known commodity and has as much room to grow as JR Smith, which is very little. If that's what you think, then okay, I get it. But if you believe Dion Waiters had ample room to develop and improve, then the trade doesn't make sense.

Again, that's really the last of it.

I'm not going to root against these guys. But I seem to be doing this almost every other year. We had this conversation after the Deng trade which I said was a bad idea and got blasted for. Or the Shaq trade which I said was a fucking joke, or several others that to me, didn't seem to make a great deal of sense considering the direction the team should be going.

It always seems this front office, whether it be Grant or Griffin, is merely reacting to events during the season rather than having a workable plan for the future.

We gambled on so much...

That Dion would be better than Barnes or Drummond...
That Tristan would learn to play basketball, even with all of his supposed athleticism.
That Luol Deng would transition well from Chicago to Cleveland considering we have no idea how to run an NBA organization.
That Spencer Hawes could get us into the playoffs.
That draft picks don't mean anything when LeBron James is on his way.
That the second round of the NBA draft is meaningless.
That Anderson Varejao would play a season of basketball (wtf...).
That LeBron James' friends could play.
That a rookie coach who may be an old dog who can't learn new tricks, and doesn't understand the NBA, would lead us to the Finals in his first year in the NBA.
That a detoxed LeBron James could do what he did in Miami.
That Kevin Love would attempt to learn to play defense.

Again... I've not been a debbie downer over the season.. I said I'd give Blatt a chance, and give this front office a chance. But we're so far into the season, and just like last year, I gotta call it how I see it. This was a bad trade.

And the reason it's a bad trade is because we should have had the foresight to know if Dion would work out or not since we've had him for several years already.

Knowing that we should've sold high, not at his lowest possible value in his career. People will ignore this point though.... so, then we have nothing to talk about. My problem is with management's inability to value or develop assets correctly. Our inability to utilize the draft. Our lack of scouting. Our lack of developmental coaches. And no system in place to mold players.

At best, Waiters was a failed experiment, a shitty gamble to draft a player who could create his own shot playing in a redundant role with Kyrie Irving. This gamble made no sense considering who was on the board. Again, the front office not making smart decisions. But to this day, folks on this board still shit on Andre Drummond to backup the decision to draft Waiters. It's ridiculous.

But anyway a Byron Scott, Mike Brown, and now a David Blatt later, we blame Waiters for not developing himself, rather than the system (think Kawhi) developing him. And he gets shit on on his way out the door; not just by posters here but by the organization (see: The Bullshit Whisperer).

I'm done with the debate. I just wanted to voice my viewpoint without it being paraphrased and warped to fit someone else's post. I don't begrudge anyone who doesn't agree with me -- that's cool, to each his own.

We'll now see how Smith and Shumpert (whenever he plays) helps the Cavaliers. And we'll also see how Waiters helps the Thunder. But this team, our team, from the top to the bottom, looks like a fucking dumpster fire.

Hold up, is Dion a high-upside talent waiting to happen that the Cavs need to hold on to or a failed experiment? Can't really have it both ways...

In any case, your point about the Cavs being a depressingly poorly run organization, is spot on. Indeed, it's not very easy be confident in the front office's aptitude based on history. Yes, the Cavs have done a shockingly bad job at identifying, accumulating and developing talent for decades. Yes, their failures at building an organization and culture have been consistently maddening. And yes, the only thing worse has been asset management, going back as far as most of us can remember.

But -- those things have little to do with evaluating this trade. I get what you're saying and there's a lot of truth in it, but you are carrying it to an extreme when applying it for the right here and right now.

This kinda reminds me of the Ricky Davis trade. It solidified the team immediately, added depth and provided firepower for future moves, even if the Cavs gave up by far the most talented player in the deal. And that's not even necessarily the case right now.
 
Not sure... He feels undervalued, or he just wanted to play for his hometown team?

Maybe his head isn't in the game... Only 1 or 2 reasons I could think that one would prefer to play on a bad team in a cold but nice city and that's a) bitches, b) moar bitches.

To me, he gets a free pass for about 2-3 days. Everyone is shellshocked after getting traded- after all, we're only human.

Then he better shape the @#ck up.
 
^Too true, too true, but like I said, a few days, then he better remember he's a professional and he needs to do what he's getting paid to do.
 
Lol always someone unhappy here. Never ends.
 

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