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Kyrie Irving

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Binkster said:
Listened to Mike & Mike this morning and Greenberg was listing off point guards better than Rajon Rondo at this point.

Listed off 11 guards and almost (per his own admission) forgot Irving. I almost swerved my car into a guard rail.

Should have been named in the top 5.

Westbrook
Curry
Lillard
Paul
...
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The same Chris Paul and Damian Lillard that Kyrie torched for 37 and 55 points respectively, this season?

It's my opinion that Russell Westbrook and Stephen Curry are the only better point guards than Kyrie right now. I would've placed John Wall ahead of him about two months ago.
 
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There's so many great pgs around now that Irving is going to get outdone every once in a while. Detroit just wasn't the matchup to go to him really, especially with Drummond and Monroe as rim protectors, it was a game to go to other options. It's hard to rank him somewhere, I would put him in a large 2nd tier with Westbrook, Paul, and Curry being the first tier. What is apparent is that he's getting better, he's always had the handles and the range but he's becoming a better defender, going from a sieve to average with the physical tools to keep improving, so I'm not really worried about where he ranks
 
Chris Paul is so damned overrated. Hasn't won a thing and he's the biggest whiner/flopper in the league. He's a really good player, but there is no way I'd take him over Irving, even if they were the same age. I'd take Westbrook, Curry, and Lillard over him, too.
 
World B ThAreee said:
Chris Paul is so damned overrated. Hasn't won a thing and he's the biggest whiner/flopper in the league. He's a really good player, but there is no way I'd take him over Irving, even if they were the same age. I'd take Westbrook, Curry, and Lillard over him, too.
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I think Westbrook and Curry are the best point guards in the league. Westbrook the best penetrator and Curry the best shooter. Kyrie is a curious mixture of the two, just ever so slightly behind the two in both categories. Kyrie is the best finisher in the paint when he penetrates though.
 
When Kyrie has a bad game, like he just had against Detroit (the numbers don't tell the story), it is a really bad game. Whereas Lebron and Love can still impact the game in many ways even when their shot is off with Irving he looks terrible when his shot is off. He is still a little too one dimensional as a player in my opinion even if that is a very good dimension (scoring).
 
Jscc said:
Curry may be having a career season but James Harden is having a better one.

Harden's doing it with neither Dwight Howard nor a second scorer [Trevor Ariza is their second option @ 12.6 PPG]; he's also doing it with a stronger schedule than Golden State's.
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I'd go Westbrook if OKC makes playoffs
 
Lately when I watch a game and I feel like Kyrie didn't play up to his standards, I look at the box score and the kid ended up with 18 points, 5 assists and a rebound while playing solid defense and being a leader... Kyrie's been so good, his "bad" games are acceptable for most point guards. I'm also starting to notice that Kyrie is slowly starting to make the players around him better once he creates off the dribble.

Top 5 PG's:
1)Westbrook
2)Curry
3)Kyrie (Yes, above Paul... I've watched Paul a lot this year as well. I feel he's regressed)
4)Paul
5)Lillard

BOOM
 
Baseline Runner said:
When Kyrie has a bad game, like he just had against Detroit (the numbers don't tell the story), it is a really bad game. Whereas Lebron and Love can still impact the game in many ways even when their shot is off with Irving he looks terrible when his shot is off. He is still a little too one dimensional as a player in my opinion even if that is a very good dimension (scoring).
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You thought Kyrie was really bad last night? Hm.

His usual scoring acumen wasn't there, but he was all over Reggie Jackson defensively in that pivotal third quarter. I thought he had him pretty clearly flustered. Offensively, he let the game come to him. Didn't force it when his shot clearly wasn't on early in the game and he didn't get too passive.

I thought it was a perfectly acceptable "off" game. :shrug:
 
Paul is so overrated. Not that he's bad, he's definitely an all-star, and probably HoFer, but he doesn't bend defenses anymore like he used to. I think part of his problem is the team around him is not built to benefit from his penetration-and-pass game. My top five right now:

1) Westbrook --> This guy is just unbelievable. He doesn't have the same scoring prowess as a Kyrie but is more physical with a far great court vision.
2) Curry --> The dude has elevated his game to a new level the past two years.
3) Kyrie --> 'Nuff said
4) Lillard --> I do think he is struggling lately; however, I think he is an incredibly gifted scorer and has a great basketball IQ. The only reason I have him ranked ahead of Paul, though, is because I think he is better in his system than Paul.
5) Explained why before.
 
It looks like Kyrie ended up cracking the top ten of Simmons' trade value column. He's not listed in today's article and it stops at 11 with Klay Thompson. Interesting how much his opinion on Kyrie has changed since listing him in the twenties a few weeks ago when he went down the rest of his original list on ESPN.
 
Jack Brickman said:
It looks like Kyrie ended up cracking the top ten of Simmons' trade value column. He's not listed in today's article and it stops at 11 with Klay Thompson. Interesting how much his opinion on Kyrie has changed since listing him in the twenties a few weeks ago when he went down the rest of his original list on ESPN.
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Just beat me to it.

Kyrie was ranked 26th on the Grantland Basketball Hour special (in front of Beal and Drummond, and behind Wade, Duncan, and Dirk).

During the GBH special, Simmons had Conley, Parker, Lowry, Lillard, Wall, Paul, Westbrook, and Curry above Kyrie, putting Irving as the 9th most valuable PG.

Now Simmons has Kyrie at #4 at WORST (He might even rank Kyrie ahead of Paul now, who knows).

I am glad that he is finally seeing how GREAT Kyrie has been this year, and that Irving is getting the recognition he deserves.
 
Jscc said:
Curry may be having a career season but James Harden is having a better one.

Harden's doing it with neither Dwight Howard nor a second scorer [Trevor Ariza is their second option @ 12.6 PPG]; he's also doing it with a stronger schedule than Golden State's.
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The difference in .SOS is minimal, but the difference in team winning percentage is not.

Other than Harden not having as much talent around him, I can't really see why he's getting all the love. Go look at their per 36 numbers and their advanced numbers. Curry is more efficient from all areas of the floor, has a higher PER, averages more assists and less TOs. Harden gets slightly more rebounds per game and averages a point more per 36.

All of these numbers are really, really close. So because of that, I'm siding with the guy whose team is significantly better and is currently a cut above everyone else in the league.
 
Rich said:
The difference in .SOS is minimal, but the difference in team winning percentage is not.

Other than Harden not having as much talent around him, I can't really see why he's getting all the love. Go look at their per 36 numbers and their advanced numbers. Curry is more efficient from all areas of the floor, has a higher PER, averages more assists and less TOs. Harden gets slightly more rebounds per game and averages a point more per 36.

All of these numbers are really, really close. So because of that, I'm siding with the guy whose team is significantly better and is currently a cut above everyone else in the league.
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If its a wash, the guy with the worse team and more adversity should win by that logic. Harden has personally won so many close games I think it is hard to argue Curry as Klay has been almost as good. Hardens defense has also been there this year.
 
Cavatt said:
If its a wash, the guy with the worse team and more adversity should win by that logic. Harden has personally won so many close games I think it is hard to argue Curry as Klay has been almost as good. Hardens defense has also been there this year.
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So then give it to Anthony Davis.

But no one wants to do that, because no one wants to give it to a guy on a team that isn't good enough. What "good enough" is is different for everyone. Apparently Houston is good enough to give Harden the MVP, but New Orleans isn't.

Instead, if the statistics are dead even, I'm gonna give it to the guy who is winning more games.
 
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