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Kyrie Irving

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randymoss1881 said:
Let's not get carried away I hate paul probably more than anyone here. But he was a monster before his knee injury the year he won MVP (yes Kobe stole it) was just insane for a pg. After 3 years in the league for both players taking kyrie over paul would be foolish.
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Well, I have seen Chris Paul do nothing in the playoffs with far more talent around him than Kyrie has ever had (until this year). I'm not saying Paul sucks. He's obviously a perennial All Star. There is just something about him that keeps him from being what I think he should be. Kyrie may not get the chance for a while to prove that he has "it" (with LBJ on the team), but I'd take my chances with him because at least I don't KNOW he can't lead his team to success. Paul hasn't yet, and with a significantly larger sample size, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
 
jyan_osu said:
So this is what I have to deal with..

this is my brother on Kyrie Irving..

"the fact is - he is an undersize shooting guard who scores very well, can dribble to his spot most of the time, can't defend 2s, poor defender of 1s, dribbles too much in 1/2 court set, still young with potential to learn to play the 1 spot. A much better version of Jeremy Lin.

Need to add poor passer, struggle with entry to post passes"

He spends every game going over why Kyrie is bad and misses the right pass into Kevin Love.

He also says Ricky Rubio is a top 5 point guard.

He is from Minnesota.
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My roommate from Washington D.C. swears up and down that Kyrie is a "terrible player" (he said that after Kyrie's 3-17 game against Portland earlier this season) who doesn't make his teammates better, refuses to pass, can't defend, and doesn't contribute much to winning.

But then he says Lillard is amazing even though he and Kyrie are basically the same type of player and says Wall is the 4th best pg in the league behind Curry, Russ, and CP3. He said he would take all of his top 4, Lillard, Lowry, Teague, Conley, Dragic, and Tony Parker over Kyrie. It gets hard to here after a while. In fact, just yesterday he checked the box scores and told me "another classic Kyrie game" because he shot 6 for 16...it's frustrating.
 
RedBlackAttack said:
You thought Kyrie was really bad last night? Hm.

His usual scoring acumen wasn't there, but he was all over Reggie Jackson defensively in that pivotal third quarter. I thought he had him pretty clearly flustered. Offensively, he let the game come to him. Didn't force it when his shot clearly wasn't on early in the game and he didn't get too passive.

I thought it was a perfectly acceptable "off" game. :shrug:
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That game was a perfect example of misleading stats. Someone reading the box score would think he had an okay game. But at one point he was 2-10, made several stupid fouls including fouling a three point heave at the end of the second quarter. Reggie Jackson had his way with him and Irving was a major reason we were down 14 in the third. He was unable to set anyone up all game continually driving into the Pistons' trees looking for a foul that was not forthcoming. He looked better at the end of the third and in the fourth when we retook the lead but he was pretty much a non-factor in that game. Shump and JR were equally bad. I don't know if it was the Piston's athleticism from top to bottom but the whole backcourt under performed. Love's endless barrage of threes won us that game.

Kyrie has been playing great but this was certainly one of those awful off-games that he has from time to time that you wouldn't know it by just looking at his stats.
 
Rich said:
Go look at their per 36 numbers and their advanced numbers.
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I'm looking at them now. Curry's per 36 are impressive but the per 100 possessions is probably more accurate:

Stephen Curry
34.8 PP100
11.6 AP100
6.7 TRP100
.483 FG%
121 ORtg
100 DRtg

James Harden
37.3 PP100
9.3 AP100
7.9 TRP100
.452 FG%
119 ORtg
101 DRtg

Curry's offensive/defensive win-shares
7.6/3.1

Harden's offensive/defensive win-shares
8.6/3.2

Ironically, Houston is 0-4 vs. Golden State this season.
 
All4One1ForAll said:
He said he would take all of his top 4, Lillard, Lowry, Teague, Conley, Dragic, and Tony Parker over Kyrie. It gets hard to here after a while. In fact, just yesterday he checked the box scores and told me "another classic Kyrie game" because he shot 6 for 16...it's frustrating.
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I guarantee Portland, Toronto, Atlanta, Memphis, and Miami would take Kyrie for Lillard, Lowry, Teague, Conley, and Dragic, respectively.
 
Why is everyone so quick to list Westbrook over Kyrie?

Westbrook scores more, but he also shoots a lot more. He is less efficient than Kyrie and I think that Kyrie is a better finisher than Westbrook (I also think Kyrie is the best in the NBA in that department). I don't think we have to waste time talking about handles.

Westbrook has a significantly higher PER, but some of that is because he puts up 6.5 rebounds per game. I don't know about you guys, but I couldn't care less that Kyrie isn't rebounding on a team with Moz, Love, LeBron, and TT. In fact if he was rebounding more I would be a little concerned as to how he is getting these over those guys.

Shooting it isn't even close. Kyrie by a mile. Westbrook is close to the Dion Line for 3 pointers shooting 29.1%. From the floor it's 43.7%, Kyrie still has him beat at 46.6%.

The biggest advantage for Westbrook on paper is assists, but with LeBron taking a lot of the PG role that makes sense. It also makes sense that Westbrook is turning the ball over 1.5 more times per game than Kyrie.

I really don't know why people are just taking it as given that he is better than Kyrie. On this team especially I would rather have Kyrie than Westbrook.
 
The Wizard of Moz said:
Why is everyone so quick to list Westbrook over Kyrie?

Westbrook scores more, but he also shoots a lot more. He is less efficient than Kyrie and I think that Kyrie is a better finisher than Westbrook (I also think Kyrie is the best in the NBA in that department). I don't think we have to waste time talking about handles.

Westbrook has a significantly higher PER, but some of that is because he puts up 6.5 rebounds per game. I don't know about you guys, but I couldn't care less that Kyrie isn't rebounding on a team with Moz, Love, LeBron, and TT. In fact if he was rebounding more I would be a little concerned as to how he is getting these over those guys.

Shooting it isn't even close. Kyrie by a mile. Westbrook is close to the Dion Line for 3 pointers shooting 29.1%. From the floor it's 43.7%, Kyrie still has him beat at 46.6%.

The biggest advantage for Westbrook on paper is assists, but with LeBron taking a lot of the PG role that makes sense. It also makes sense that Westbrook is turning the ball over 1.5 more times per game than Kyrie.

I really don't know why people are just taking it as given that he is better than Kyrie. On this team especially I would rather have Kyrie than Westbrook.
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Dude…..Westbrook is an absolute animal. Watch an OKC game some time. Don't just look at the stats (besides he's only averaging 32.5 minutes a game and still putting up those crazy numbers!). Even with Durant out, they're squashing teams because Russ is straight up balling on them. His averages in February are 30/10/8 on 49/39/93 shooting splits….yeah.
 
Westbrook isn't the greatest of shooters but thats the only thing Kyrie has over Westbrook. Otherwise, Westbrook is better than Kyrie in all other facets of the game. Better at attacking the paint, the best rebounder amongst all the guards, better defender even though Kyrie has been improving well off late and a better leader. In terms of playmaking, both are more or less the same. So, if you add all those aspects, I don't see how Kyrie can be considered better than Westbrook YET.

And, I am not criticizing Kyrie when I say that. I have maintained even when he was struggling and when some labeled him as the next Marbury and what not, that the kid is a great great talent and will be amongst the best guards in the league. But, that is what he is right now. A great talent. He still has to show everyone that he can do what he has been doing in the past one odd months consistently for season after season and if he keeps this level for a few more years, he will be rightly considered amongst the elite guards in the league. He doesn't have the body of worth the likes of Westbrook, Harden, Curry and CP3 have yet.

The good thing for Kyrie is he has plenty of time on his side. He is 22 and has at least 10 odd more years to show everyone what an awesome player he is. I have no doubt that by the time Kyrie and all these current guards retire, Kyrie can be considered as good as any other guard in this generation. But currently, he has to show he can do it in the biggest of stages. I know, he can. However, he has to perform like he has been for the past one months consistently in the regular season as well as the play-offs.
 
All4One1ForAll said:
Dude…..Westbrook is an absolute animal. Watch an OKC game some time. Don't just look at the stats (besides he's only averaging 32.5 minutes a game and still putting up those crazy numbers!). Even with Durant out, they're squashing teams because Russ is straight up balling on them. His averages in February are 30/10/8 on 49/39/93 shooting splits….yeah.
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And Kyrie isn't? So he was hot in a month with 8 days off for the all star break. I would much rather look at what he has done all year. And I admit I have only seen 3 of his games (2 against the cavs, but in those two against the Cavs it was pretty evident that with mozgov in the middle Westbrook was not as much of a factor. He is in no way a better finisher at the rim than Kyrie. Moz altered his shots any time he drove. Why is he getting so overrated
The Red Viper said:
Westbrook isn't the greatest of shooters but thats the only thing Kyrie has over Westbrook. Otherwise, Westbrook is better than Kyrie in all other facets of the game. Better at attacking the paint, the best rebounder amongst all the guards, better defender even though Kyrie has been improving well off late and a better leader. In terms of playmaking, both are more or less the same. So, if you add all those aspects, I don't see how Kyrie can be considered better than Westbrook YET.

And, I am not criticizing Kyrie when I say that. I have maintained even when he was struggling and when some labeled him as the next Marbury and what not, that the kid is a great great talent and will be amongst the best guards in the league. But, that is what he is right now. A great talent. He still has to show everyone that he can do what he has been doing in the past one odd months consistently for season after season and if he keeps this level for a few more years, he will be rightly considered amongst the elite guards in the league. He doesn't have the body of worth the likes of Westbrook, Harden, Curry and CP3 have yet.

The good thing for Kyrie is he has plenty of time on his side. He is 22 and has at least 10 odd more years to show everyone what an awesome player he is. I have no doubt that by the time Kyrie and all these current guards retire, Kyrie can be considered as good as any other guard in this generation. But currently, he has to show he can do it in the biggest of stages. I know, he can. However, he has to perform like he has been for the past one months consistently in the regular season as well as the play-offs.
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Shooting is a huge part of it though. If you think they are equal facilitators than I don't see how you give Westbrook the edge. He is not better at finishing at the rim, obviously doesn't have better handles. So if you want to talk about rebounds for a point guard as a huge factor we just value our point guards differently then. I think some of you are trying too hard to not be homers that you are missing that Kyrie is already one of the best. Being 22 doesn't mean he can't already be up there

And qaws I don't see why you rated my post old, I would obviously take dion over both
 
It's not so much a bash on Irving as it is a praise of Westbrook. He is better. Period. It's not even really a debate to be honest. Ask anyone nationally and they'll tell you the same thing.

What Westbrook is doing right now is putting him in the MVP race along with Curry and Harden.

I seriously wonder how much you have even seen Westbrook @Wizard of Moz. Calling him overrated would get you laughed out of almost any room of people talking basketball.

Also, qaws rates everyone's posts old so just ignore it.
 
People are getting a little too biased around here lately...cmon now we don't want to turn into delusional Lakers fans :chuckle:

In the last few days I've seen people say that Kyrie is better than Westbrook, better than Curry, and better than Paul.
 
The Wizard of Moz said:
And Kyrie isn't? So he was hot in a month with 8 days off for the all star break. I would much rather look at what he has done all year. And I admit I have only seen 3 of his games (2 against the cavs, but in those two against the Cavs it was pretty evident that with mozgov in the middle Westbrook was not as much of a factor. He is in no way a better finisher at the rim than Kyrie. Moz altered his shots any time he drove. Why is he getting so overrated


Shooting is a huge part of it though. If you think they are equal facilitators than I don't see how you give Westbrook the edge. He is not better at finishing at the rim, obviously doesn't have better handles. So if you want to talk about rebounds for a point guard as a huge factor we just value our point guards differently then. I think some of you are trying too hard to not be homers that you are missing that Kyrie is already one of the best. Being 22 doesn't mean he can't already be up there

And qaws I don't see why you rated my post old, I would obviously take dion over both
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Dude it really isn't even a debate...Westbrook IS a better facilitator (don't know how you could argue otherwise when he's averaging 9 assists per 36 minutes compared to Ky's 5; in fact he just had 17 assists without Durant the other day), a better rebounder, a better defender, and a better all around scorer (28.6 points per 36 minutes on 54% TS%) except for shooting, which is the only area Kyrie beats Russ in. He's just a better player right now. Can Kyrie reach that level eventually? Sure, he's only 22. But if you try arguing that Kyrie is already better than Russ to any serious sport fans, you're gonna get laughed out of the room.
 
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