Gay rights

My sister is gay. She had her wedding planned in Niagra Falls this previous Saturday. I have to say it's kind of awesome this came down the day before she got married.

gourimoko said:

Agreed..

Literally until very recently, people thought homosexuality was just deviant behavior. It wasn't until very very recently that the majority of the country actually came to understand that people were in fact born with their sexual orientation, it wasn't just them choosing to reject normality.

By these people being born into a class of people, that changes the dynamic. We can't pass laws that deliberately discriminate against specific classes of people.

So all this talk about Constitutionality seems to be getting thrown out of the window, simply to make an illogical argument to support the status quo of discrimination.

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Yes the distinction between a behavior and a class of people is why you can apply the 14th amendment.

As long as taxes are impacted by whether your married or not Marriage will be a matter the federal government will be involved with.. Also it was a lower court that brought this case to the Us surpreme court.
In 1789 Hamilton laid out the groundwork for judicial review and in 1803 the supreme court invoked it.
A supreme court decision may be overruled by the act of invoking an amendment.

someone mentioned about marriage not being in the constitution. thats exactly what the Supreme court is supposed to do. Address cases and controversies not specified in the constitution

Tornicade said:

someone mentioned about marriage not being in the constitution. thats exactly what the Supreme court is supposed to do. Address cases and controversies not specified in the constitution

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Might wanna scroll through Article III Section 2 again.

This whole country is a bunch of sensitive pussies.

I'm not pro/anti gay, I truly am not. But this shit is already getting on my nerves. Like great, you guys can get married and butt bounce all over your well decorated apartment, great! People get offended over everything.

If you're black, anything between a white and a black is turned into a hate crime.
If you're gay, everything is turned into an anti-gay thing.
When do we grow a spine and say, "life is tough, deal with it." We're handing out money to the poor so they can sit around and not work. We're allowing gays to marry so they feel like everyone else. Great! For every one person who benefits is another two who abuse.

Bill Walton. said:

If you're black, anything between a white and a black is turned into a hate crime. If you're gay, everything is turned into an anti-gay thing.
When do we grow a spine and say, "life is tough, deal with it."

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How about when society gets off our fucking back?

The irony in complaining about people asking for their rights... "Stop complaining," says the guy complaining about nothing...

How is your life improved by complaining about people protesting for equality?

gourimoko said:

How about when society gets off our fucking back?

The irony in complaining about people asking for their rights... "Stop complaining," says the guy complaining about nothing...

How is your life improved by complaining about people protesting for equality?

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You're either free, or you're not.

We're not.

Anarchy does not equate to chaos.

Gouri...do I have a RIGHT to put what I want into my own body (Controlled Substances Act)? Do I have a RIGHT to choose to NOT put what I want in my own body (California SB 277)

Do I need anyone's PERMISSION, whether or not it is considered a RIGHT?

Rich said:

Might wanna scroll through Article III Section 2 again.

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dont need to.Judicial review is implied although not outright states in articles 3 and 4.

If Congress doesnt want to have something subject to judicial review they can amend it to the consitnution otherwise its a congressional law pursuant to the constitution and subject to review by the Supreme court

This is further evidenced by rejection of the Virginia plan to have a council that immediately review any act Congress passed into law as it was argued this level of protection was already offered by thhe supreme court and therefore unnecessary

After reading many comments, all I will say is that rights do not belong in the purview of legislation or the democratic process. They are vested when we are born and the judiciary is absolutely correct to intervene when those rights are infringed upon by either the State or the majority. That said...

I think the Court erred by not applying, to the fullest, The Rational Basis Test and Strict Scrutiny of the EPC. Their reasoning using Substantive Due Process is sketchy and has rightfully led to controversy. Had they applied Strict Scrutiny centered on a minority group endowed immutable characteristics, with a history of being discriminated against based solely on that characteristic, then not only would the Court have struck down all anti-SSM laws, but also all anti-gay laws. It would have been a much firmer basis for a ruling and probably would have gained Roberts on the majority as well. They beat around the bush insofar they remedied a wrong without fully exploring why that wrong was committed in the first place.

It is still legal to discriminate against homosexuals in many states. Now, they can get married but will still be second-class citizens for many years before more cases are decided.

Lord Mar said:

You're either free, or you're not.

We're not.

Anarchy does not equate to chaos.

Gouri...do I have a RIGHT to put what I want into my own body (Controlled Substances Act)?

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Do you have a right to take drugs? Yes.

You citing a law that may violate that right hasn't anything to do with my point.

You're saying there are encroachments on your freedom? Of course there are, I completely agree.

Lord Mar said:

Do I have a RIGHT to choose to NOT put what I want in my own body (California SB 277)

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This law isn't an encroachment of freedom. It simply requires children who are attending public school to be vaccinated. It does not mandate vaccinations in general.

Lord Mar said:

Do I need anyone's PERMISSION, whether or not it is considered a RIGHT?

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Permission to do what?

I get your hang-up on the drug laws, and on this point we both agree - drug use should not be a crime. But I can't remember the last time someone was convicted of drug "use," but instead buying or selling controlled substances - which is a crime and is not an encroachment on your freedom (commerce is regulated). And while "use" is illegal, and I agree it shouldn't be, I can't remember (or don't know) when or how often someone was convicted simply for using drugs.

The Oi said:

Have we ever figured out why only gay guys have that gay voice? What causes that?

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I just saw a trailer for some documentary that actually relates to this while doing my weekly trailer watch at IMDB.

Basically about some dude who's friends and family all tell him his voice is fine and that he should love it and be fine with it, but he wants to unlearn the voice he has and learn how to speak in a more "traditional" heater/masculine voice.

And no, this is not a my own life story documentary. That would be something about a guy who begins to only talk online, never leave his room, and become consumed with staring at the NBA Trade Machine on ESPN 19 hours a day

I am gay. Although this decision was the expected result, it still feels great to see how far this country has come so quickly on this issue. I remember five years ago telling friends who would get really fired up when rights were being suppressed through ballot initiatives to relax because it was going to be legal everywhere within 20 years. It didn't take anywhere near that long.

I also love how Democrats running for president don't have to pretend they're against gay marriage anymore either. It was always entertaining for me watching John Kerry in '04 and Obama and Clinton in '08 pretend they were against it when you knew they weren't. Now every Democrat (and some Republicans) running for national office is able to come out of the closet on the issue. But I will miss the awkward lying that was required in the past.

gourimoko said:

Do you have a right to take drugs? Yes.

You citing a law that may violate that right hasn't anything to do with my point.

You're saying there are encroachments on your freedom? Of course there are, I completely agree.



This law isn't an encroachment of freedom. It simply requires children who are attending public school to be vaccinated. It does not mandate vaccinations in general.



Permission to do what?

I get your hang-up on the drug laws, and on this point we both agree - drug use should not be a crime. But I can't remember the last time someone was convicted of drug "use," but instead buying or selling controlled substances - which is a crime and is not an encroachment on your freedom (commerce is regulated). And while "use" is illegal, and I agree it shouldn't be, I can't remember (or don't know) when or how often someone was convicted simply for using drugs.

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How else do you expect people to get drugs? I guess state-recognized shops? lol. Sort of like state-recognized institutions? lol

So, as long as a law equally discriminates, it's A-OK?

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My point, really, is that what I deem a right is a little different than what you have in mind. I have a RIGHT to do what I want with my body. Marriage, in and of itself, on the other hand, is NOT a RIGHT. It is an INSTITUTION that was set up a certain way for a certain reason. It DOES, however, seem to establish certain "rights" - (privileges, in reality).

Now, as you mentioned earlier, when you start saying that I can't have sex (or a certain kind of relationship) with another dude (that has to do with my own body and my own personal choice) then you're starting to encroach upon my true RIGHTS.

With all of this said, and I'll reiterate again, I don't care about same sex relationships. Get married, I don't care....nor did I ever.

I DO think that same sex couples should be allowed to adopt, get tax breaks if they care for children, etc.

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Again, all of this is dualistic thinking designed to separate people further.

Lord Mar said:

You're either free, or you're not.

We're not.

Anarchy does not equate to chaos.

Gouri...do I have a RIGHT to put what I want into my own body (Controlled Substances Act)? Do I have a RIGHT to choose to NOT put what I want in my own body (California SB 277)

Do I need anyone's PERMISSION, whether or not it is considered a RIGHT?

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Well its was made clear in the early 1900's that cocaine caused negroes to rape white women. noone at that time cared if white men raped white women so it wasnt a problem on that end.
the controlled substance act was considered public protection.

Tornicade said:

Well its was made clear in the early 1900's that cocaine caused negroes to rape white women. noone at that time cared if white men raped white women so it wasnt a problem on that end.
the controlled substance act was considered public protection.

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Who do you think introduced (pushed) Cocaine to the US? Who do you think introduced Crack-Cocaine to the US??? Usually, those who create the problem tend to be the ones who offer the solution (Controlled Substance Act).

PS - I'm not trying to make this a drug thread.