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LeBron James

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MediumBaller said:
Kobe stans are the most delusional fans in the world. Somehow he is "clutch" even though his clutch stats are terrible. LeBron "can't shoot" but his career averages from the field and 3 are higher than Kobe's. I would venture that Kobe is the most overrated player in NBA history with the way people want to put him as a top 5 player of all time. He was a volume shooter.
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Yup. Pretty much my exact sentiments.

Don't get me wrong. Kobe was fantastic in his prime. Easily a top-15 player of all time (I think I have him right around 11-12), but comparing him to LeBron is absolutely laughable.

Clutch stats are horrible. Shaq carried him through his first few playoffs and to his first few rings. Give early career LeBron that Shaq and he's easily got five rings right now too.

Extremely overrated defender. 12x defensive team guy with a career DRtg of 105.

LeBron for reference has only made the defensive teams six times yet has a career DRtg of 103.
 
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LeCLUTCH JAMES

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It is crazy how Lebron has continually faced really tough opponents whether they be the Spurs, the big 3 Celtics, the Warriors, or even that Magic team that were just incredibly hot shooting for one series. Bad luck for sure. I also have no doubt the 14/15 team was better than the Warriors, but injuries.
 
Cavatt said:
It is crazy how Lebron has continually faced really tough opponents whether they be the Spurs, the big 3 Celtics, the Warriors, or even that Magic team that were just incredibly hot shooting for one series. Bad luck for sure. I also have no doubt the 14/15 team was better than the Warriors, but injuries.
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Sort of feels like LeBron should have 5 to 7 rings already.

He blew the Mavs series.
Injures ruined that first Warriors series.
KD joining up with Steph ruined it last season.

I still think coaching blew that Magic series in 09. Call me crazy but I still think we matched up well with the Lakers that year.
 
Gus Zing said:
Sort of feels like LeBron should have 5 to 7 rings already.

He blew the Mavs series.
Injures ruined that first Warriors series.
KD joining up with Steph ruined it last season.

I still think coaching blew that Magic series in 09. Call me crazy but I still think we matched up well with the Lakers that year.
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Yeah all of those were possible. The Magic loss felt worse to me than anything ever. We all knew they should forget about Dwight scoring and guard the 3 point line. Lebron probably should have guarded dwight. He would have I think if it happened today.
 
Cavatt said:
Yeah all of those were possible. The Magic loss felt worse to me than anything ever. We all knew they should forget about Dwight scoring and guard the 3 point line. Lebron probably should have guarded dwight. He would have I think if it happened today.
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My honest opinion is we were not a very good team outside of Lebron having one of the greatest individual seasons of all time. It's not a great metric but PER is useful with these kind of comparisons.

Freakin Mo Williams was our second best player and he put a PER of 17. The only other guy with a PER above 15 which is considered average was old man Z who was obviously also limited by that time in his career.

You compare that to the last 3 years where we have had 3 guys above 20 along with 2 or 3 more above 15. Night and day difference in terms of talent.
 
Pioneer10 said:
My honest opinion is we were not a very good team outside of Lebron having one of the greatest individual seasons of all time. It's not a great metric but PER is useful with these kind of comparisons.

Freakin Mo Williams was our second best player and he put a PER of 17. The only other guy with a PER above 15 which is considered average was old man Z who was obviously also limited by that time in his career.

You compare that to the last 3 years where we have had 3 guys above 20 along with 2 or 3 more above 15. Night and day difference in terms of talent.
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I guess so. That series was lost by 5 pts. Give up 6 2's instead of 3's and they win.

If the Cavs were half as good as they have been the past 3 years, that team would have been dominant. It is crazy this Warriors team shows up now and just CLevelands luck.
 
Pioneer10 said:
My honest opinion is we were not a very good team outside of Lebron having one of the greatest individual seasons of all time. It's not a great metric but PER is useful with these kind of comparisons.

Freakin Mo Williams was our second best player and he put a PER of 17. The only other guy with a PER above 15 which is considered average was old man Z who was obviously also limited by that time in his career.

You compare that to the last 3 years where we have had 3 guys above 20 along with 2 or 3 more above 15. Night and day difference in terms of talent.
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Different league back then.

We had enough its just our coaching couldn't overcome the Magic's matchup problems.

We would have been a problem for the Lakers.
 
Cavatt said:
I guess so. That series was lost by 5 pts. Give up 6 2's instead of 3's and they win.

If the Cavs were half as good as they have been the past 3 years, that team would have been dominant. It is crazy this Warriors team shows up now and just CLevelands luck.
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Yea thats another thing no one expected. Probably heading towards a 4 peat if Steph Curry never takes that next step. We all thought he was good, but never this good.
 
Gus Zing said:
Different league back then.

We had enough its just our coaching couldn't overcome the Magic's matchup problems.

We would have been a problem for the Lakers.
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Frankly wishful thinking particularly when we lost to an Orlando team which was clearly inferior to the Lakers. Kobe wasn't as good as Lebron but Gasol was a beast as well as a pre-injury Bynum. On top of that Odom was a much better player then anyone on our team outside of Lebron. Those Laker teams were very very good

3 guys with PER over 30 and a bunch of guys over 15. Typical championship level NBA team. Cavs were not outside of Lebron just being a GOAT level beast
 
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