2018 Draft Prospects Thread

Lee · Mar 21, 2018

The Wizard of Moz said:
Exactly. @Lee you aren't wrong, but your reasoning is one of the biggest reasons running backs are pretty much a non starter in the top 5 of a draft

Never said i wanted Barkley, just keeping the reasoning against Barkley on point.

Now if Barkley by some fantasy land was available in the 2nd with lets say Rashaad Penny and Sony Michel, then we are having a different discussion. But that discussion is pointless because he wont be there.

If we wanted best player available, you take Nelson first overall, but pretending position doesnt matter in drafting is ridiculous.

We should start a RB thread, QB thread and 4th pick thread and see who everyone wants or what the want to do (like trade down from 4th should be an option on the survey)

Lee · Mar 21, 2018

AZ_ said:
Rashaad Penny is going to carry the load and get the most out of every carry.

You simply can't say that about Barkley.

To be a workhorse, you'd ideally want someone who could be efficient in his carries.

Barkley is a big play guy who, ideally, you don't want touching the ball 25 times a game.

Given the differences in value, it's incomprehensible that you'd take Barkley that high given his overall inefficiency as a runner.

Are you coming over to my side on Penny? I have him as my number 1 back if we take a back early 2nd. Love his game. 2nd is Michel.

AZ_ · Mar 21, 2018

Lee said:
Are you coming over to my side on Penny? I have him as my number 1 back if we take a back early 2nd. Love his game. 2nd is Michel.

For what the Browns need, I'm operating under the assumption that a long-term deal with Duke Johnson will be worked out eventually.

That has me trending more towards the Penny, Kerryon Johnson, Royce Freeman crowd as the backup to Hyde.

But at this point, I change day-to-day. Michel can certainly be a guy who does both, so if he's there at 33 I'll be beyond thrilled.

Triplethreat · Mar 21, 2018

AZ_ said:
Rashaad Penny is going to carry the load and get the most out of every carry.

You simply can't say that about Barkley.

To be a workhorse, you'd ideally want someone who could be efficient in his carries.

Barkley is a big play guy who, ideally, you don't want touching the ball 25 times a game.

Given the differences in value, it's incomprehensible that you'd take Barkley that high given his overall inefficiency as a runner.

You wouldn’t want a guy who can break it 70 to the house on any given play to get 25 touches?

What kind of asinine logic....

Barkley is pretty comparable to David Johnson. Get him the damn ball.

Mr. Orange · Mar 21, 2018

Re: Darnold.

I do remain a bit skeptical of USC Quarterbacks. Carson Palmer aside, there hasn't been much coming out of USC:

Matt Leinart
John David Booty
Marc Sanchez
Matt Barkley
Cody Kessler

With all the athletes at USC, it's not hard to imagine some numbers being inflated. Coupled with Darnold's wonky throwing motion, and I have a lot of concerns.

Don't screw this up Browns.

AZ_ · Mar 21, 2018

Triplethreat said:
You wouldn’t want a guy who can break it 70 to the house on any given play to get 25 touches?

What kind of asinine logic....

Not when carries 1-24 are too often useless.

He's pretty comparable to David Johnson, if you don't take into account how often Barkley struggles to make the line of scrimmage.

I'd compare him to a larger Reggie Bush.

The Wizard of Moz · Mar 21, 2018

Triplethreat said:
You wouldn’t want a guy who can break it 70 to the house on any given play to get 25 touches?

What kind of asinine logic....

Barkley is pretty comparable to David Johnson. Get him the damn ball.

So here's the part where I remind everyone that the league leader in 40+ yard runs last year was Bilal Powell with 4.

There were only 12 players in the NFL last year with multiple 40+ yard runs and one of them was Cam Newton.

So, yeah. Barkley isn't going to have more than a handful of 40+ yard runs in a season let alone 70 yard runs. Why would you draft based on something that might happen once every 4 games? I prefer to keep the stick moving myself.

Chris · Mar 21, 2018

Mr. Orange said:
Re: Darnold.

I do remain a bit skeptical of USC Quarterbacks. Carson Palmer aside, there hasn't been much coming out of USC:

Matt Leinart
John David Booty
Marc Sanchez
Matt Barkley
Cody Kessler

With all the athletes at USC, it's not hard to imagine some numbers being inflated. Coupled with Darnold's wonky throwing motion, and I have a lot of concerns.

Don't screw this up Browns.

I can guarantee you Darnold's numbers aren't "inflated" from his supporting cast at USC.

Triplethreat · Mar 21, 2018

The Wizard of Moz said:
So here's the part where I remind everyone that the league leader in 40+ yard runs last year was Bilal Powell with 4.

There were only 12 players in the NFL last year with multiple 40+ yard runs and one of them was Cam Newton.

So, yeah. Barkley isn't going to have more than a handful of 40+ yard runs in a season let alone 70 yard runs. Why would you draft based on something that might happen once every 4 games? I prefer to keep the stick moving myself.

Here’s a stat for both you and @AZ_

In 2009, Adrian Peterson ran for 0 or negative yardage on 23% of his runs.

He rand for 1400 yards and 18 TD’s that season.

BREAKING: Adrian Peterson, NOT a workhorse.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/runs-for-no-gain

AZ_ · Mar 21, 2018

Triplethreat said:
Here’s a stat for both you and @AZ_

In 2009, Adrian Peterson ran for 0 or negative yardage on 23% of his runs.

He rand for 1400 yards and 18 TD’s that season.

BREAKING: Adrian Peterson, NOT a workhorse.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/runs-for-no-gain

I appreciate the info, but this is at the NFL level and not the college level. Something of a false equivalence to equate 25 percent at the college level and 25 percent at the NFL level.

Barkley led the nation by a hell of a lot in this regard, whereas Peterson isn't even in the Top 5.

chrisrich91 · Mar 21, 2018

Mr. Orange said:
Re: Darnold.

I do remain a bit skeptical of USC Quarterbacks. Carson Palmer aside, there hasn't been much coming out of USC:

Matt Leinart
John David Booty
Marc Sanchez
Matt Barkley
Cody Kessler

With all the athletes at USC, it's not hard to imagine some numbers being inflated. Coupled with Darnold's wonky throwing motion, and I have a lot of concerns.

Don't screw this up Browns.

Why would you lump all of those guys together? Only 3 were drafted as 1st round picks. So to compare Kessler and Barkley and Booty to Darnold is nonsensical, because in their drafts they weren't expected to be stars.

Sanchez, Leinart, Palmer, and Darnold are the recent highly touted USC QBs. Of that bunch Leinart was a bust, Sanchez was controversial but at least serviceable before crashing and burning, and Palmer was great. Not nearly the death sentence people make being a USC QB out to be.

This is all disregarding the fact that making ANY judgment on a prospect because of his school is unequivocally ignorant. Especially when they all played under different staffs and systems. Just such a bad hill to die on.

Lee · Mar 21, 2018

Triplethreat said:
Here’s a stat for both you and @AZ_

In 2009, Adrian Peterson ran for 0 or negative yardage on 23% of his runs.

He rand for 1400 yards and 18 TD’s that season.

BREAKING: Adrian Peterson, NOT a workhorse.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/runs-for-no-gain

But Le'Veon Bell lead the league last year at 5% with negative Rushes and most of us agree he is the best in the NFL right now.

Negative rushes are very bad and drive killers. Your big plays no longer come on the ground, they are now through the air, just how the game is played today.

Triplethreat · Mar 21, 2018

AZ_ said:
I appreciate the info, but this is at the NFL level and not the college level. Something of a false equivalence to equate 25 percent at the college level and 25 percent at the NFL level.

Barkley led the nation by a hell of a lot in this regard, whereas Peterson isn't even in the Top 5.

So you think Barkley will have higher than 25% of his NFL runs for negative yardage?

Deezus · Mar 21, 2018

chrisrich91 said:
This is all disregarding the fact that making ANY judgment on a prospect because of his school is unequivocally ignorant. Especially when they all played under different staffs and systems. Just such a bad hill to die on.

...Reminds me of when people pointed to the relatively poor reputation Duke players had in the NBA before we drafted Kyrie. :chuckle:

Triplethreat · Mar 21, 2018

Lee said:
But Le'Veon Bell lead the league last year at 5% with negative Rushes and most of us agree he is the best in the NFL right now.

Negative rushes are very bad and drive killers. Your big plays no longer come on the ground, they are now through the air, just how the game is played today.

My point is that negative yard runs is much more reflective of o-line play than the RB.

2018 Draft Prospects Thread

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