2019 NBA Draft

Nathan S said:

Athleticism is always tricky because there's a functional aspect to it, and for Zion that's still developing. For instance, he isn't yet able to utilize his quickness in the halfcourt like LeBron because his ballhandling's not quite up to snuff.

You may say I'm making this more difficult than it needs to be, but I don't think that's true...if you completely ignore skills, then a guy like Ayton is arguably a better athlete than either of them. What makes LeBron special is that he's the rare super-athlete who was actually skilled enough to unlock his full athletic potential on the court. I think there's at least an outside chance that Zion will be able to do that too, and then he'll well and truly be in the conversation with James.

Click to expand...

Just want to say that "athleticism" needs to be defined. Is it just speed/strength/quickness, or does it include things like hand/eye coordination, balance, and quickness/sureness of your hands?

Because I think it's easy to confuse learnable skills with things like hand speed/coordination, which cannot be learned. For example, a guy may have great natural hand-eye coordination, but may not have practiced basketball skills enough. Other guys may have been working on their skills their whole life, but have hit a natural ceiling.

The Human Q-Tip said:

Just want to say that "athleticism" needs to be defined. Is it just speed/strength/quickness, or does it include things like hand/eye coordination, balance, and quickness/sureness of your hands?

Because I think it's easy to confuse learnable skills with things like hand speed/coordination, which cannot be learned. For example, a guy may have great natural hand-eye coordination, but may not have practiced basketball skills enough. Other guys may have been working on their skills their whole life, but have hit a natural ceiling.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree......and I should have clarified.....it is translatable athleticism.

Harrison Barnes is an incredible workout athlete but he's nowhere near even Paul George as a functional one.

I more so was wondering how granular people would get when rating athletic potential or skill......if someone like Zion is more athletic than 9 out of every 10 NBA prospects, is he a 9.5? Simply round up?

To me it's a broader assessment......watch him play, he can translate that freakish athleticism on the court.....maybe not in all areas but enough, given his age.....do you give him a 10 for evaluation purposes and move on? Or do you labor over where he ranks in that upper tier of athletes?

I think Zion is a (10/10) athlete but I'd like to see him measured before giving a final rank in an athleticism / size combined ranking system. I felt like I was being stingy giving him a combined athletic / frame rating of .9750....which I would classify as "undersized w/ elite athleticism." Someone like LeBron would actually be above 1.000 given his combination of size / frame / athleticism.

The intention was not to get into the varying degrees of "undersized" just that Zion is shorter than average but it is counterbalanced because of his length and athletic skill.

I like Justin Robinson, too. VT's entire backcourt is excellent. And Blackshear has been on an absolute tear since Nathan brought him up lol.

Robinson is pretty small and really old too, but he can play. His passing is legit... makes more skip feeds than just about anyone you'll see in NCAA right now lol. Clearly seems like the team's on court leader if you care about that stuff too.

Let say we get Zion. Do we start him at SF where his size and athleticism will be hard to match up with or do we play him at PF or center where he will be more effective early?

Matisse Thybulle is averaging 11.5 steals+blocks per 100 possessions. The Cavs are averaging 9.3 steals+blocks per 100 possessions.

inliner311 said:

Let say we get Zion. Do we start him at SF where his size and athleticism will be hard to match up with or do we play him at PF or center where he will be more effective early?

Click to expand...

Center.

Putting him at SF would be malpractice.

If you aren’t a shooter (and he’s not), you can’t reasonably expected to play full time on the wing in the current NBA.

Stick him at center and take full advantage of Zion’s uniqueness.

If he hasn't been mentioned yet, for the later/Houston 1st round pick, I'd be interested in Charles Bassey - 6-11 PF/C. He's a freshman and likely more raw given his background of moving to the states from Nigeria at 14 with mostly a soccer background. He's averaging 15 pts and 10 rebounds on 9.1 FGA and 2 blocks per game.

inliner311 said:

Let say we get Zion. Do we start him at SF where his size and athleticism will be hard to match up with or do we play him at PF or center where he will be more effective early?

Click to expand...

I think I would if he can handle playing PF.
He doesn't have to be a shooter at that position, yet his skills would allow him to move around.
Not so sure about center because of height issue..taller centers would turn and shoot over him.

Green Lantern said:

I think I would if he can handle playing PF.
He doesn't have to be a shooter at that position, yet his skills would allow him to move around.
Not so sure about center because of height issue..taller centers would turn and shoot over him.

Click to expand...

With our roster make up, Zion being able to move around would be great for matchups and getting our best 5 on the floor. I think if you have him play SF to start he will be forced to work on his game. At center, I think he will be able to coast by on his athleticism and not really grow as a player, similar to Nance.

I do think his long term position is probably PF but while Love is on the team and our best floor spacer, we will play better with Love at PF and Zion either at SF or center. With our logjam of bigs and a lack of wings, SF would probably be the easiest spot for Zion to get minutes while allowing the team to pump up the value of our bigs for trade.

New SI mock has a host of high-upside guys falling into the 20's: Bol (who they have the Cavs taking with the Rockets' pick), Jontay Porter, Nickeil Alexander-Walker, and Talen Horton-Tucker. Would be thrilled to get one of them.

Nathan S said:

New SI mock has a host of high-upside guys falling into the 20's: Bol (who they have the Cavs taking with the Rockets' pick), Jontay Porter, Nickeil Alexander-Walker, and Talen Horton-Tucker. Would be thrilled to get one of them.

Click to expand...

So would I.

I don't know if it is the nature of mock drafts (suppressing certain guys so changes can be made) or if there is actually a general feeling that some of those guys could actually be there at 20.

From what I see, a lot of mock drafters are making the mistake of not coming off of players they should come off of. I like Cam but the fact that he remains a top 4 aggregate guy is insane to me.....same can be said for players like Langford (7), Little (8), Johnson (9). That is literally the classic GM death trap.....of drafting guys that had pre-season hype and potential and being unwilling to think players like Huner, Bol, Hayes, Porter, Clarke, etc. are possibly better options.

A lot of mistakes are typically made in that band of picks (5-9) and it just seems to be the case again this year, if any of that aggregate data at all lines up with how NBA teams view these players.

I'm interested to see the movement in the next aggregate.

I'mWithDan said:

So would I.

I don't know if it is the nature of mock drafts (suppressing certain guys so changes can be made) or if there is actually a general feeling that some of those guys could actually be there at 20.

From what I see, a lot of mock drafters are making the mistake of not coming off of players they should come off of. I like Cam but the fact that he remains a top 4 aggregate guy is insane to me.....same can be said for players like Langford (7), Little (8), Johnson (9). That is literally the classic GM death trap.....of drafting guys that had pre-season hype and potential and being unwilling to think players like Huner, Bol, Hayes, Porter, Clarke, etc. are possibly better options.

A lot of mistakes are typically made in that band of picks (5-9) and it just seems to be the case again this year, if any of that aggregate data at all lines up with how NBA teams view these players.

I'm interested to see the movement in the next aggregate.

Click to expand...

Noticed they have Goga up to 17, the highest I've seen him in a mainstream mock, in spite of the fact that they still describe him as "slower footed." Seems inevitable that he'll rise into the lottery as word trickles across the pond, and I wonder what his ceiling is in a draft with no elite NCAA center prospects.

inliner311 said:

Let say we get Zion. Do we start him at SF where his size and athleticism will be hard to match up with or do we play him at PF or center where he will be more effective early?

Click to expand...

14% chance of this but what the hell ...

You start him, Love and Cedi. I want to see Love firing outlet passes to Zion.

Nathan S said:

New SI mock has a host of high-upside guys falling into the 20's: Bol (who they have the Cavs taking with the Rockets' pick), Jontay Porter, Nickeil Alexander-Walker, and Talen Horton-Tucker. Would be thrilled to get one of them.

Click to expand...

I was just about to ask what if Bol falls to our second pick? A lineup of Sexton, Berret, Cedi, Love and Bol Bol would stretch defenses thin. My concern with Bol is he looks fragile as hell. If he can put on weight and stay on the court he could be a good pick.

benchplayer said:

I was just about to ask what if Bol falls to our second pick? A lineup of Sexton, Berret, Cedi, Love and Bol Bol would stretch defenses thin. My concern with Bol is he looks fragile as hell! If he can put on weight and stay on the court he could be a good pick.

Click to expand...

There are a lot of guys who could claim to be the most unusual prospect in the draft, but he might top all of them. 7'3" and he may literally be the best shooter in the entire draft, which is just crazy. But he's an absolute twig and it's hard to imagine him holding up to any kind of physicality, let alone for an 82 game season. He's could be drafted anywhere from #4 to mid 20's, and I don't think that's an exaggeration.