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2019 Browns Off Season/Roster Discussion

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Jack Brickman said:
There's probably about six RBs I'd take right now over Chubb.

Gurley (assuming health)
Kamara
Barkley
Zeke
McCaffrey
DJ

I'd list Bell too but I need to see what he looks like after a year off. Gordon was a tough call as well. Could go either way with him. I give Chubb the edge though due to being three years younger and with a lot less mileage.

At any rate, if you're top ten at your position, you are elite.
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Agree with your ranking of backs ahead of Chubb. Bell is out of the "elite" category for me until he proves he can return to form. His vision and patience are special.

I think players like Melvin Gordon are Chubb's ceiling--incredibly productive backs who don't really have a trait that pops allowing them to separate from the rest of the pack.

I think we differ on where we draw that "elite" line. To me, elite is something transcendent. You're not just really good, you do something special that others don't.
 
Jack Brickman said:
There's probably about six RBs I'd take right now over Chubb.

Gurley (assuming health)
Kamara
Barkley
Zeke
McCaffrey
DJ

I'd list Bell too but I need to see what he looks like after a year off. Gordon was a tough call as well. Could go either way with him. I give Chubb the edge though due to being three years younger and with a lot less mileage.

At any rate, if you're top ten at your position, you are elite.
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Kamara and McCaffrey really aren't the same. Chubb could be an every down back, but neither of them can be. They are great receiving backs who can also run, but neither Kamara or McCaffrey can run the ball 30 times a game, but Chubb can. Not saying Chubb is better, just different types of backs.
 
Lee said:
Kamara and McCaffrey really aren't the same. Chubb could be an every down back, but neither of them can be. They are great receiving backs who can also run, but neither Kamara or McCaffrey can run the ball 30 times a game, but Chubb can. Not saying Chubb is better, just different types of backs.
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McCaffrey was third in the NFL in touches, with 326. Any of us who thought he couldn't carry the load were proven wrong.
 
It’s going to be absolutely insane this year.. last few weekends I have been out and about in Cleveland here we go browns chants have broken out at all the bars.. if browns win the division city will explode
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
McCaffrey was third in the NFL in touches, with 326. Any of us who thought he couldn't carry the load were proven wrong.
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Not only with CMC, but Kamara also carried the load while Ingram was suspended and is excellent between the tackles for a 215 lb back.

We say he can’t hold up, but he hasn’t been injured either... so do we know he can’t hold up?
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
McCaffrey was third in the NFL in touches, with 326. Any of us who thought he couldn't carry the load were proven wrong.
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He had the 10th most carries at 14 a game, I stand corrected. More than I thought.

FYI, Zeke led the league at 19 per a game.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
Insinuating that I don't watch this stuff is cute.

Are you honestly telling me that Nick Chubb is as talented as Saquon Barkley, Alvin Kamara and David Johnson? Because, even before his knee injury at Georgia, he wasn't.

Chubb looked untalented early on this year--the only difference between him and Carlos Hyde were the numbers they wore. I was worried Chubb was damaged goods--someone who would never recover to that first round talent he was at Georgia before the injuries. But, damn did he recover well during the year. His speed came back, and he looks like a very good runner. Chubb can be one of the most productive runners in this league, especially if this offense comes on the way I expect it to with Baker, an offensive line, and disgusting weapons. But, Chubb won't ever be in that elite upper echelon of backs. He just doesn't possess the talent to do so.

Kareem Hunt has never been "on his way to being a top 5 back." The guy is way closer to an average back who was in a really good system than he is to a "top 5 back."

I think you're using homerism and stats to project talent onto players.

It feels really weird being in this position. I think Chubb's a great back. He just isn't elite--and that's okay. You don't need an elite RB to win in the NFL. Not being elite doesn't mean you can't be a very good starter, or in the top half of the league. Melvin Gordon's not an elite back and he's definitely a top 10 RB in the NFL and the Chargers love him. He's crazy productive for them.
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Dude lol you bring up Kamara and David Johnson like they were top tier consensus prospects coming into the league. They became stars after showing NFL fans and players what they can do. Chubb is in the same situation. He wasn't hyped entering the league, but once given the chance, he showed us he's a big back with power and vision but unlike other big power backs, he has the speed to take it to the house. That's elite talent right there.

And if Kamara is a Superstar in your eyes, why is Hunt not? Hunt can run and catch the ball and at one point led the league in most stats.
 
Trying to figure out how David Johnson is an elite athlete and player, but Nick Chubb is not elite.

Because they are basically the same player.
 
Nphan said:
Dude lol you bring up Kamara and David Johnson like they were top tier consensus prospects coming into the league. They became stars after showing NFL fans and players what they can do. Chubb is in the same situation. He wasn't hyped entering the league, but once given the chance, he showed us he's a big back with power and vision but unlike other big power backs, he has the speed to take it to the house. That's elite talent right there.

And if Kamara is a Superstar in your eyes, why is Hunt not? Hunt can run and catch the ball and at one point led the league in most stats.
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You don't have to be a top prospect. You have to show it on tape in the NFL.

Kamara is lightning in a bottle. No RB in the league has his kind of acceleration.

David Johnson still might be the best back in the league (but I think Saquon has that title now) and no back is as good of a receiver as he is. I tout them as elite because besides being really damn good, they have qualities that no other back in the NFL possesses.

If your view of Chubb is that he's a big back with power who can get up to speed and take it to the house, I feel you're selling him way short. Yes, I'm arguing that Chubb is better than your description of him. That description sounds like Derrick Henry. I think big power backs are going the way of the dodo, and top end speed is pretty irrelevant if you need a freaking runway to get there. I think a much better comp for Chubb's potential would be like Le'Veon Bell before he slimmed down, or someone like Melvin Gordon. DeMarco Murray is another good comp.

Chubb having speed to outrun defense isn't an elite trait--at least by my definition, because plenty of other RB's possess that trait. When I say Chubb isn't elite, I'm not saying he isn't good--I'm saying he doesn't reach my top tier of 5 or so players that truly separate from the pack because they have talents no other back in the NFL has.

If you think Alvin Kamara and Kareem Hunt are comparable, I don't think you've watched them play.
 
Amherstcavsfan said:
Trying to figure out how David Johnson is an elite athlete and player, but Nick Chubb is not elite.

Because they are basically the same player.
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Besides being arguably the best back in the NFL and a great runner, David Johnson is hands-down the best receiving back in the NFL.

Nick Chubb isn't.

A neutral fan would see that take and make fun of Browns fans for it.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
Besides being arguably the best back in the NFL and a great runner, David Johnson is hands-down the best receiving back in the NFL.

Nick Chubb isn't.

A neutral fan would see that take and make fun of Browns fans for it.
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And yet, Chubb was a better athlete at the combine and was vastly more productive and efficient than David Johnson has ever been as runner. Last year, given opportunities , they were nearly equivalent as receivers.

You are severely under rating Nick Chubb. If he never blows out his knee, his production and athletic profile would have been enough to make him a top 10 pick. His loss is our gain.
 
The problem with PFF's runningback evaluations is they really value yards after contact. Chubb kills that stat, and so everything related to that stat gets overinflated, and Chubb ranks as their best RB in the NFL.

FWIW, I think that is a really strong stat to evaluate pure physical strength. It does a good job evaluating RBs.

But, I do not believe that @Out of the Rafters at the Q is entirely wrong... Pre-injury Gurley and Zeke are similar but better than Chubb; and Kamara and David Johnson are different types of RBs, but also probably a bit more impactful to their offense.

Still, Chubb is absolutely in that next tier. I'd say he is pretty clearly a top-ten RB in the NFL and better than a lot of recent RBs on Super Bowl teams.

The ultimate fact is that individual RBs really do not matter all that much. Visually, sure, and it is easy to see talent difference. But, regarding their overall impact on a game, I am not sure how much of a difference there is between a Zeke and a Chubb. A runningback's performance is a function of a team's offensive line and passing game. It's why teams like Kansas City, Seattle, Denver, LAR, etc. have had a fairly easy time with the RB-by-committee approach.
 
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