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2019 Browns Off Season/Roster Discussion

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I'm sorry, but as a pure runner, I take Chubb over David Johnson 24x7 and twice on Sundays.

I get that Chubb can't really be on their tier at this point but that doesn't mean all the elite RBs do everything better than him.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
Besides being arguably the best back in the NFL and a great runner, David Johnson is hands-down the best receiving back in the NFL.

Nick Chubb isn't.

A neutral fan would see that take and make fun of Browns fans for it.
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I think this is also a bit of an exaggeration on David Johnson.

As a pass catcher, absolutely. The guy could play receiver in the league as he can basically run a full route tree like Kamara.

However, as a rusher, he is not top 5 in the NFL. At times, he shows poor vision and has a tendency to get too upright at 6’1. He has great long speed, but he really comes to a stop when making his cuts and allows the defense to close in and contain him.

He’s a good player as a total package, probably Top 5, but I wouldn’t call him the best back in the league.
 
thedarkness2332 said:
I think this is also a bit of an exaggeration on David Johnson.

As a pass catcher, absolutely. The guy could play receiver in the league as he can basically run a full route tree like Kamara.

However, as a rusher, he is not top 5 in the NFL. At times, he shows poor vision and has a tendency to get too upright at 6’1. He has great long speed, but he really comes to a stop when making his cuts and allows the defense to close in and contain him.

He’s a good player as a total package, probably Top 5, but I wouldn’t call him the best back in the league.
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I think David Johnson is more dependent on coaching than Chubb. Chubb is a grinder who can run it up the middle and generate a ton of yards after contact. Guys like that can be effective in any offense, especially when they are also able to catch the football competently as well.

Johnson needs a coach who is going to use him in space and as a receiver, which is why Johnson was so underwhelming this past year with shitty coaching.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
You don't have to be a top prospect. You have to show it on tape in the NFL.

Kamara is lightning in a bottle. No RB in the league has his kind of acceleration.

David Johnson still might be the best back in the league (but I think Saquon has that title now) and no back is as good of a receiver as he is. I tout them as elite because besides being really damn good, they have qualities that no other back in the NFL possesses.

If your view of Chubb is that he's a big back with power who can get up to speed and take it to the house, I feel you're selling him way short. Yes, I'm arguing that Chubb is better than your description of him. That description sounds like Derrick Henry. I think big power backs are going the way of the dodo, and top end speed is pretty irrelevant if you need a freaking runway to get there. I think a much better comp for Chubb's potential would be like Le'Veon Bell before he slimmed down, or someone like Melvin Gordon. DeMarco Murray is another good comp.

Chubb having speed to outrun defense isn't an elite trait--at least by my definition, because plenty of other RB's possess that trait. When I say Chubb isn't elite, I'm not saying he isn't good--I'm saying he doesn't reach my top tier of 5 or so players that truly separate from the pack because they have talents no other back in the NFL has.

If you think Alvin Kamara and Kareem Hunt are comparable, I don't think you've watched them play.
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Dude first you say Chubb is not elite and looked just like an old Carlos Hyde out there. And i said no look again. Now you suddenly flip it on me and tell me Chubb is more than a big back with home run abilities and is comparable to Leveon Bell who is a star. Which one is it? Did you just completely change your mind?
 
Nphan said:
Dude first you say Chubb is not elite and looked just like an old Carlos Hyde out there. And i said no look again. Now you suddenly flip it on me and tell me Chubb is more than a big back with home run abilities and is comparable to Leveon Bell who is a star. Which one is it? Did you just completely change your mind?
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I've been pretty damn consistent. There's no flip here.

The first few games of the season, Chubb looked nearly identical to Hyde. Later, he came into his own. Recoveries from knee injuries take time, and it was clear Chubb still had rust on him.

Heavier Le'Veon Bell isn't the same player as lighter Le'Veon Bell. Check up on how he did for Pittsburgh at the two different playing weights in order to understand my take.

A big back with speed, in my opinion, equates to a scrub. Derrick Henry is a big back with speed and he's garbage--he doesn't move the needle at all. That's why I'm saying your description sells Chubb short.
 
thedarkness2332 said:
I think this is also a bit of an exaggeration on David Johnson.

As a pass catcher, absolutely. The guy could play receiver in the league as he can basically run a full route tree like Kamara.

However, as a rusher, he is not top 5 in the NFL. At times, he shows poor vision and has a tendency to get too upright at 6’1. He has great long speed, but he really comes to a stop when making his cuts and allows the defense to close in and contain him.

He’s a good player as a total package, probably Top 5, but I wouldn’t call him the best back in the league.
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That's probably accurate. For a pure rushing standpoint, I'll take Zeke, Saquon, healthy Gurley, Kamara, Bell, and Melvin Gordon ahead of him.

But his ability to play like a WR is what separates him from the pack and puts him into that elite top 5 for me. He's absolutely special, and he's the best receiving back I've seen since Faulk.
 
Nick Chubb always looked better than Hyde in season. The only time Hyde looked better was in preseason. Which isnt a surprise since Chubb was a rookie still.

It was so obvious to everyone but the coaching staff that Dorsey literally had to force their hand. Chubb had a bigger day on 3 carries than Hyde had all year. Its insulting to say he ever looked like Hyde.
 
Amherstcavsfan said:
Nick Chubb always looked better than Hyde in season. The only time Hyde looked better was in preseason. Which isnt a surprise since Chubb was a rookie still.

It was so obvious to everyone but the coaching staff that Dorsey literally had to force their hand. Chubb had a bigger day on 3 carries than Hyde had all year. Its insulting to say he ever looked like Hyde.
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Wasn't just me who thought that. The whole "I couldn't tell them apart besides the number on their jersey" was something guys who analyze these players for a living were saying as well.

I think it's obvious that he got stronger and healthier as he had more time removed from the knee injury. To disregard that because he had a few long runs is an egregious oversight.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
Wasn't just me who thought that. The whole "I couldn't tell them apart besides the number on their jersey" was something guys who analyze these players for a living were saying as well.

I think it's obvious that he got stronger and healthier as he had more time removed from the knee injury. To disregard that because he had a few long runs is an egregious oversight.
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To each his own, but it was pretty clear when he was on the field that he was better, from the Pitt game to the end.
 
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Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
Wasn't just me who thought that. The whole "I couldn't tell them apart besides the number on their jersey" was something guys who analyze these players for a living were saying as well.

I think it's obvious that he got stronger and healthier as he had more time removed from the knee injury. To disregard that because he had a few long runs is an egregious oversight.
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Chubb never had more than three carries the first six weeks so it's not like anyone had much to evaluate.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
I've been pretty damn consistent. There's no flip here.

The first few games of the season, Chubb looked nearly identical to Hyde. Later, he came into his own. Recoveries from knee injuries take time, and it was clear Chubb still had rust on him.

Heavier Le'Veon Bell isn't the same player as lighter Le'Veon Bell. Check up on how he did for Pittsburgh at the two different playing weights in order to understand my take.

A big back with speed, in my opinion, equates to a scrub. Derrick Henry is a big back with speed and he's garbage--he doesn't move the needle at all. That's why I'm saying your description sells Chubb short.
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Honestly my only problem with your take is the Chubb looked equal to Hyde. Chubb only got 3 caries a game, but he had better vision and quickness than Hyde and was clearly better. I agree he is 2nd tier from the elite backs, which is great in today's NFL.

Just cant get behind a statement that says Chubb and Hyde were the same first 6 games. Give Chubb 15 rushes a game instead of 3, and he would have shown how much better he was than Hyde.
 
Lee said:
Honestly my only problem with your take is the Chubb looked equal to Hyde. Chubb only got 3 caries a game, but he had better vision and quickness than Hyde and was clearly better. I agree he is 2nd tier from the elite backs, which is great in today's NFL.

Just cant get behind a statement that says Chubb and Hyde were the same first 6 games. Give Chubb 15 rushes a game instead of 3, and he would have shown how much better he was than Hyde.
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Fair enough. It's completely irrelevant because of the way Chubb looked later on in the season. That rusty guy doesn't exist anymore. If he continues to get stronger the further he gets removed from the injury, whooo baby. I think he can be better than Melvin Gordon and Leonard Fournette, and we're in for a treat.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
Fair enough. It's completely irrelevant because of the way Chubb looked later on in the season. That rusty guy doesn't exist anymore. If he continues to get stronger the further he gets removed from the injury, whooo baby. I think he can be better than Melvin Gordon and Leonard Fournette, and we're in for a treat.
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You say rust, but we both know big backs get stronger as the game goes on and need multiple caries unlike the little shiftier backs who can make an impact with fewer carries. That is why he didn't look as good as the 2nd half.

It was frustrating to watch because clearly Chubb was falling forward for extra yards and making an extra man miss over Hyde. But they are similar backs, that I will agree, just that Chubb was clearly the better version of the bug back.

But anyone that says Chubb belongs in the class as Saquon didn't watch Saquon, also I don't value David Johnson as much as you as I don't think he is as elite, I actually think he is a 2nd tier back at this point, I watch allot of Cardinal games and I think he has lost a step or some reason.
 
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