Cleveland Indians 2018-2019 Offseason Outlook

Steve_424 said:

I don't really agree that all an owner does is write checks. They are responsible for the front office and stability of the team. Tito, Antonetti, Chernoff have all said they could have gone elsewhere (and reports back that), but haven't because they enjoy working for the Indians so much because of the culture.

I'm also not sure how a team with six straight winning seasons gunning for their 4th straight Division crown isn't consistent.



Serious question - what is Dan's biggest accomplishment that LeBron wasn't a part of?

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Using cash to get Irving basically.

Compared to the Knicks we have the better Dolan.

Frankly given the small TV revenue and weak attendance it's a miracle this team had two windows in 2007 and 2016-?. Difference between 70s-80s and 90s-present is the front office, plus better owners. Steve O'Neill was ok and Jacob's/Dolan spent money (not like bid markets but not bad for a small market) but prior to that - owners had NO money and front office was really bad.

What an assclown. God dammit, just sell the team already.

If Dolan thinks he has it rough now, once Lindor walks home games are gonna be as empty as they were in Cleveland Stadium in the 70s and 80s.

Urban said:

The Dolan's spending power + the lack of fan support really makes for the perfect storm of disappointment for everyone involved

• 2016 they went to the World Series. They were on their way to their first division title since 2007 behind 94 wins, they won 14 straight in June, they had stars emerging in Lindor, Ramirez, etc. They averaged 19,650 fans/game which ranked 28th. In September, they were averaging less than 15k/game through the week

• Behind the World Series hype and splashing money on EE, their attendance only rose from 19,650 to 25,285 (22nd). The team won a league high 102 games, they went on a 22 game win streak, and looked the best team in baseball. 18,500 fans came to the ballpark Monday Sept 11 to see the Indians win their 19th straight game *Indians saw a 5600 increase in fan attendance/game following their World Series loss. Following their World Series loss, in 2015 the Royals saw a 9300 uptick and they ranked 10th in average attendance

• 2018 the attendance dropped to 24,0832. Good for 21st best

It is inexcusable for the Dolans to be cutting back on their spending in the midst of this run. But in the past few years they have spent money and they have made win now moves (EE, Miller, Bruce, Hand, Donaldson) that unfortunately haven't paid off in the one way that matters. The team has been really, really good and the fan support is equivalent to a team that is winning 78 games every year.

Attendance will inevitably fall off more this year as the fan base feels alienated, with decent justification, as we fall back into this chicken and the egg cycle.

I'd be a lot firmer in the "sell the team Dolan" camp if I weren't scared of new ownership moving the team.

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This is such an excellent point. I remember being at the 20th straight victory on a Tuesday night looking around and wondering how the hell the place wasn’t completely packed. If the general fan base couldn’t get fully on board the team at that point when they were coming off of a Game 7 in the World Series the previous season, then when exactly were they going to jump on the bandwagon?

Ohio said:

What an assclown. God dammit, just sell the team already.

If Dolan thinks he has it rough now, once Lindor walks home games are gonna be as empty as they were in Cleveland Stadium in the 70s and 80s.

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So, Progressive Field will finish in the upper half in attendance across the league if they re-sign Lindor?

Kevalier said:

This is such an excellent point. I remember being at the 20th straight victory on a Tuesday night looking around and wondering how the hell the place wasn’t completely packed. If the general fan base couldn’t get fully on board the team at that point when they were coming off of a Game 7 in the World Series the previous season, then when exactly were they going to jump on the bandwagon?

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Besides the 90's (because there was no Browns and fans adapted) the attendance has always been terrible throughout the week. The weekend games would see sellouts though, or very close. This has been going long before now. Fans just don't show up during the week. TV Ratings are sky high though.

Kevalier said:

So, Progressive Field will finish in the upper half in attendance across the league if they re-sign Lindor?

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That's a different point, but perhaps Dolan should share his expectations, or what it would take for him to re-sign Lindor. You know, instead of being a fucking douche about it.

Real Deal said:

Besides the 90's (because there was no Browns and fans adapted) the attendance has always been terrible throughout the week. The weekend games would see sellouts though, or very close. This has been going long before now. Fans just don't show up during the week. TV Ratings are sky high though.

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Which is in large part due to the severe population loss in the city. Having said that, what the Indians did that season hadn’t occurred in a century. You would think a fan base that prides itself on being one of the most loyal in the country would make the trek from Westlake or Solon would want to experience history and show appreciation to the baseball team on a perfect, early September evening. Also, the Cavs didn’t have trouble drawing during the weekdays when they were experiencing similar success.

Kevalier said:

So, Progressive Field will finish in the upper half in attendance across the league if they re-sign Lindor?

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Good point. Indians baseball is to hope you get a 2-3yr window every decade.
Call me crazy, but depending on how this season goes, we may have to start fielding offers for Frankie and Bauer get started on this rebuild.

Ohio said:

What an assclown. God dammit, just sell the team already.

If Dolan thinks he has it rough now, once Lindor walks home games are gonna be as empty as they were in Cleveland Stadium in the 70s and 80s.

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Yeah, lets try to conjure up an image of fans not showing up.

Ohio said:

That's a different point, but perhaps Dolan should share his expectations, or what it would take for him to re-sign Lindor. You know, instead of being a fucking douche about it.

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I totally disagree .. the last thing he should do is negotiate in the media of any kind

JDailey23 said:

Good point. Indians baseball is to hope you get a 2-3yr window every decade.
Call me crazy, but depending on how this season goes, we may have to start fielding offers for Frankie and Bauer get started on this rebuild.

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They don’t need to do anything to “get started on this rebuild”.

1. Because they don’t need to rebuild.

2. The Indians are one of the few teams currently having their cake and eating it too. They are a contender as we speak, and also are in line to have a top 10 or top 5 farm in the next year or so. More young talent in the lower levels of their farm than I’ve ever seen them have.

Anyone who suggests just trading guys with multiple remaining years is taking it all the way to the other extreme of the spectrum. Would be a terrible idea, and one that is unnecessary.

jack hammill said:

I totally disagree .. the last thing he should do is negotiate in the media of any kind

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It'd be better than doing nothing and then talking shit about it.

When in doubt, never go full Art Modell.

AZ_ said:

Yeah, lets try to conjure up an image of fans not showing up.

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Yeah, it can get a lot worse. And it will.

The biggest issue is the fact they are a bottom 15 market size, and a bottom attendance wise, but in the top 15 salary wise at the moment. What else can you ask of an owner?

If we got full attendance 30-35K a night, we would have probably still traded EE, but otherwise we would have sign Marwin, kept Gomes, and would have likely gotten a veteran OF and Setup man as well, but how can you ask someone to afford to run a team if people don’t show up to watch them? They have really good TV and radio ratings, but honestly don’t expect an owner to put out money if people don’t show up!

24k in sales at like simple 100, per person is 194.4 mil over a season, 35k is 283.5 mil a season. So that amount of ticket difference is like a 100 mil a season. If fans sold out most games, they don’t have an excuse not to stay at the 150 mil type of payroll in a sense but at 24k that’s just asking way too much of Dolan/any owner.