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Isaac 3 & D Okoro - A Two Way Playing Basketball Savant

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Who is Isaac Okoro's Favorite Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Emperor?

  • Arcadius (if one does not count Constantine as first)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Justinian the Great

    Votes: 9 15.5%

  • Zeno

    Votes: 2 3.4%

  • Heraclius

    Votes: 3 5.2%

  • Basil II, the Bulgar Slayer

    Votes: 6 10.3%

  • Nikephoros II Phokas, the Pale Death of the Saracens

    Votes: 7 12.1%

  • Alexios I Komnenos

    Votes: 4 6.9%

  • John II, the Beautiful Komnenos

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Constantine XI

    Votes: 4 6.9%

  • Jim I Chones, the Magnificent

    Votes: 27 46.6%
  • Total voters
    58
Smooth said:
The early season injury has really seemed to set him back and he hasn't been able to regain that same rhythm..

He started the season with four straight double digit games, going 5-12 from 3 and averaging 6 rebounds and 2 assists per game..

Go back and few pages and you can see the excite in his progress, then sure enough a game or two later he's injured and out for 3 weeks..

The last few games his 3PT volume has started to trend back up but those ancillary activity stats (rebounds, assists) haven't bounced back yet..
Click to expand...

This is just how Okoro has been throughout his whole time as a Cavs though. He looks like something has clicked for a couple games then he regresses back to what he was.
 
Wanted to drop a a post on Okoro before the game tonight.

I think a few things are clear about him. He has a few real NBA level skills. He is an elite defender against most primary 1s and 2s and some 3s. He is a terror in transition. He has good not great passing instincts when driving as a secondary passer. He can cut. He has massive quads. There are also major holes in his game. His shot is at best suspect. I still dont really trust him to dribble. From what I have seen this year, his rebounding has shifted from abysmal to meh. He is still really young, but I am not as hopeful as I was a few years ago.

Is that what you expect from a lottery pick in year 4? If he was a hit not really. Was he a bust? Maybe, depends on your definition but I think he is still an NBA player. We just have to adjust our expectations beyond the number next to his draft ranking.

Okoro is not an NBA starter right now. He is still a viable rotation player. He should be your 3rd or 4th guy off the bench, playing 15-20 mpg and defending guards. Any offense you get from him is a nice bonus, but not a major expectation of his role.

He is not a player you should be building your offensive strategy around, but JBB has done him 0 favors in this respect. Asking him to go sit in the corner is a misuse of his best skills. You might as well put Brendan Hayward in the corner with him. Okoro should be involved more as a power guard (ala Bruce Brown) as the roll man in short PnR or running backcuts. He needs to be empowered more in transition. He cannot be put out in lineups with 2 other non-shooters. Last year, we lacked the personnel to really play like that....but we have it this year. We still see no adaptation from JBB on this.

I dont think we should dump him for a half empty back of Lays original chips like some of you want, but he is not untouchable in trades either. He still has a valuable role to play, and one we dont have a super easy replacement for on this team. If we are moving a wing, I think Caris makes more sense as he is redundant with Mitchland and doesn't really provide as unique a role. Anyway, end of this rant is that Okoro is still an NBA player. Probably a bust from our initial expectations, but that doesn't mean he should just be dumped for nothing. Also, get a better coach
 
foucault87 said:
Wanted to drop a a post on Okoro before the game tonight.

I think a few things are clear about him. He has a few real NBA level skills. He is an elite defender against most primary 1s and 2s and some 3s. He is a terror in transition. He has good not great passing instincts when driving as a secondary passer. He can cut. He has massive quads. There are also major holes in his game. His shot is at best suspect. I still dont really trust him to dribble. From what I have seen this year, his rebounding has shifted from abysmal to meh. He is still really young, but I am not as hopeful as I was a few years ago.

Is that what you expect from a lottery pick in year 4? If he was a hit not really. Was he a bust? Maybe, depends on your definition but I think he is still an NBA player. We just have to adjust our expectations beyond the number next to his draft ranking.

Okoro is not an NBA starter right now. He is still a viable rotation player. He should be your 3rd or 4th guy off the bench, playing 15-20 mpg and defending guards. Any offense you get from him is a nice bonus, but not a major expectation of his role.

He is not a player you should be building your offensive strategy around, but JBB has done him 0 favors in this respect. Asking him to go sit in the corner is a misuse of his best skills. You might as well put Brendan Hayward in the corner with him. Okoro should be involved more as a power guard (ala Bruce Brown) as the roll man in short PnR or running backcuts. He needs to be empowered more in transition. He cannot be put out in lineups with 2 other non-shooters. Last year, we lacked the personnel to really play like that....but we have it this year. We still see no adaptation from JBB on this.

I dont think we should dump him for a half empty back of Lays original chips like some of you want, but he is not untouchable in trades either. He still has a valuable role to play, and one we dont have a super easy replacement for on this team. If we are moving a wing, I think Caris makes more sense as he is redundant with Mitchland and doesn't really provide as unique a role. Anyway, end of this rant is that Okoro is still an NBA player. Probably a bust from our initial expectations, but that doesn't mean he should just be dumped for nothing. Also, get a better coach
Click to expand...

Really good post. I agree with everything about Okoro. My only comment (not directed at you) is that his draft position is utterly irrelevant (or should be). Draft position determines your initial contract but after that whether or not a player stays in the NBA or what the second contract is worth depends on performance, past and projected future.
 
If Okoro continues to play aggressive: active on the boards, run out and attack in transition, and not hesitate taking corner 3; cavs might win some games with 2 starters down. He provides what this team lacked with the starting unit, a good POA defender. He wont score 18 every game, but the rebounds and threat to make corner 3s is enough to make the offense work.
 
Peacedog said:
Don't look now, but Isaac is one made 3 point shot from being a 40% shooter this season.
Click to expand...

Still on pretty low volume though. He’s getting better at hitting the open 3s the defense gives him but he’s not yet a proactive threat who demands attention from the defense
 
Hopefully the Atlanta game will be a springboard and give him the confidence to shoot uncontested 3's with no hesitation and take it strong to the rim when he has a seam.

It's still weird to see an NBA small forward in this fourth year who I can't ever remember seeing make a 15-foot jumper.
 
I feel like we do this with Okoro, over and over again. "Maybe this is the time it will...."

Fingers crossed, but feels ominous. Saying that, I do think the meantime between good events is shorter every time. Like first.year, happened once...then a few times in a year...maybe we can eventually get it to every other game in a few years...
 
We all know Isaac gives a month of good play then he suddenly disappears. If he can string a month of these good games we can weather the DG and Mobley missing some time.
 
mAo_mAo said:
We all know Isaac gives a month of good play then he suddenly disappears. If he can string a month of these good games we can weather the DG and Mobley missing some time.
Click to expand...

Okoro tends to look better when the team is short handed and asks more of him.
 
foucault87 said:
Wanted to drop a a post on Okoro before the game tonight.

I think a few things are clear about him. He has a few real NBA level skills. He is an elite defender against most primary 1s and 2s and some 3s. He is a terror in transition. He has good not great passing instincts when driving as a secondary passer. He can cut. He has massive quads. There are also major holes in his game. His shot is at best suspect. I still dont really trust him to dribble. From what I have seen this year, his rebounding has shifted from abysmal to meh. He is still really young, but I am not as hopeful as I was a few years ago.

Is that what you expect from a lottery pick in year 4? If he was a hit not really. Was he a bust? Maybe, depends on your definition but I think he is still an NBA player. We just have to adjust our expectations beyond the number next to his draft ranking.

Okoro is not an NBA starter right now. He is still a viable rotation player. He should be your 3rd or 4th guy off the bench, playing 15-20 mpg and defending guards. Any offense you get from him is a nice bonus, but not a major expectation of his role.

He is not a player you should be building your offensive strategy around, but JBB has done him 0 favors in this respect. Asking him to go sit in the corner is a misuse of his best skills. You might as well put Brendan Hayward in the corner with him. Okoro should be involved more as a power guard (ala Bruce Brown) as the roll man in short PnR or running backcuts. He needs to be empowered more in transition. He cannot be put out in lineups with 2 other non-shooters. Last year, we lacked the personnel to really play like that....but we have it this year. We still see no adaptation from JBB on this.

I dont think we should dump him for a half empty back of Lays original chips like some of you want, but he is not untouchable in trades either. He still has a valuable role to play, and one we dont have a super easy replacement for on this team. If we are moving a wing, I think Caris makes more sense as he is redundant with Mitchland and doesn't really provide as unique a role. Anyway, end of this rant is that Okoro is still an NBA player. Probably a bust from our initial expectations, but that doesn't mean he should just be dumped for nothing. Also, get a better coach
Click to expand...
When you're taking a guy in the top 5, you want a bonafide starter who can score the basketball. I'm sorry.
 
I am overall disappointed by Okoro's progress and I had high hopes for him pre-draft, and wanted the Cavs to draft him. He has some big flaws in his game and even the areas where people say he is good (transition scoring) are really not THAT good.

THAT BEING SAID...I still have hope for him, and sure he doesn't have the ceiling that Mobley does just because of his measurables for his position (or lack thereof). But it sure seems like a lot of people cut Mobley a break..."it takes him time to adjust every season"..."give him 30 games"...and forget that Okoro is the exact same way, and Okoro is only ~5 months older than Mobley. (granted the extra year of NBA experience partially negates the age similarity...or maybe not because is our coaching staff capable of developing players? Not so sure)

Pre- and post- All Star break numbers:


1702912060958.png

1702912071837.png


And if you plot these sequentially, it's pretty evident that Okoro is a "two steps forward, one step back" guy like you would probably expect out of most young players. Think of the red lines as "in-season improvement" and the yellow lines as "off-season forgetting how to play basketball."

1702912923483.png

1702912933256.png

The 3PT% is particularly interesting, of course he is a low-volume shooter so hard to take too much away from this. But in terms of "has it finally clicked for Okoro or is this just another flash in the pan"...this is a pretty optimistic piece of data. If he has his same mid-season bump he's had the last couple of years...
 

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