Tribe Will Be Scouring the Discount Aisle

[Gunther]

Well, 60 years of bad luck working against us but the odds gotta be turning in our favor any year now. Way I see it, we're due for a World Series title within the next 20-30 years.

Thank God for the Cubs.

 

[macbdog]

I'm just saying, we wouldn't be talking about the Cavs "winners's mentality" if they picked 3rd in 2003....

Completely OT.... You don't think the team would have won with Carmelo Anthony here? I mean, he is the only one of the youngens from that draft that didn't ink a deal with an out clause to hold over his teams' fans' heads... :chuckles:



I don't think the Tribe has to hit 'the lottery', but they have to do a better on the draft. So far in the Shap Era, we have seen a club that is: able to extract talent from other team's farm systems, do a solid (if unspectacular) job in Latin America, establish a well-respected organization that players like playing for (no small feat- just look down at the lakefront on any given Sunday), gotten young players to sign for below market value to stay here for at least the first few years of FA (imagine if the Marlins could do that?) and take a very systematic and comprehensive approach to their whole operation.

The tools are there to win and win consistently. What is lacking is the draft, which the team has been less than mediocre at since Shapiro took over. The club took a bunch of risks that first draft in 2001, thanks to extra picks from Manny leaving, and it was such an unmitigated disaster that the club was shell-shocked after that. For whatever reasons, their models indicated that they should go for 'value' (ie safer but less upside) with their picks and espouse the risky high school pitchers like the 5 that bombed in 01 (Denham, Martin, Horne, Dittler, Foley). Now, some of it was just bad luck; Jeremy Guthrie was the 'sure thing' of the 03 draft and slid to the Tribe b/c of signability concerns, they paid the price, gave him a bigleague contract but it turned out he wasn't bigleague ready and needed minor league seasoning his contract status wouldn't allow. But most of it was just bad decisions. They appear to be recovering the last two years. They took numerous chances and spent a good dime on the draft in 08; we have to wait and see if it bears fruit but it at least looks good so far. The 09 draft was frustrating b/c they found a slider in the first, possibly got a steal in Kipnis but then went cheap in the rest of the draft. Maybe they were finding gems or maybe they were going safe, but I didn't see too many encouraging debuts. Either way, the draft has been their heel and it is the biggest issue holding the Tribe back.

They can survive regular star turnover if they can even become a middle-of-the-pack drafting team. Be a great team every year? No. Be competitive? I think so, even on a budget.

 

[Chris]

Good point. If their drafting wasn't god-awful, we'd probably survive selling off all our star players once they start commanding large contracts.

I'm still miffed about Dolan saying "This is as good as it gets in this market!" or whatever that exact quote was.

 

[cdt]

Baseball sux, you loyal followers get props form me. As fun as it is to watch a bunch of fraudulent athletes play a slow paced 3 hour game I'll pass.

Where will Grady end up though LA or NY?

 

[Chris]

Baseball sux, you loyal followers get props form me. As fun as it is to watch a bunch of fraudulent athletes play a slow paced 3 hour game I'll pass.

Where will Grady end up though LA or NY?

Bottom of the barrel if he keeps sucking/being injured. :chuckles:

Nah, I see him in NY.

 

[AZ_]

Bottom of the barrel if he keeps sucking/being injured. :chuckles:

Nah, I see him in NY.

Don't count out Seattle.

 

[Gunther]

Baseball sux, you loyal followers get props form me. As fun as it is to watch a bunch of fraudulent athletes play a slow paced 3 hour game I'll pass.

Where will Grady end up though LA or NY?

This is why I hate Bud Selig. Instead of promoting 'roid-ball all these years, he should have been trying to promote the game of baseball to the younger demographic. Basketball, football, hockey, alternative sports, soccer - all of these have gained ground in the last 15-20 years, while baseball appears to be on the decline in popularity. Selig can suck it.

 

[Gunther]

Similar to the article originally posted, but this one is written by Castrovince.

Meetings should offer idea of market
With limited needs, Indians likely to be bargain hunters
By Anthony Castrovince / MLB.com

12/02/09 12:00 AM EST

CLEVELAND -- Given the Indians' limited resources this winter, it's going to be a while before the team has a firm grasp on what it will be able to do in the Hot Stove market.

So when the Tribe arrives at the annual Winter Meetings next week, don't expect a lot of action on the transaction wire. The Indians' front-office decision-makers might as well get acquainted with beautiful downtown Indianapolis, because they don't figure to be extremely active at the Indiana Convention Center.

The quiet vibe around the Tribe is a product of two truths: This team has limited resources to pour into payroll after ownership took about a $16 million hit in 2009, and a young, rebuilding Indians roster geared more toward development than contention doesn't contain a great deal of needs.

Well, let's qualify that latter portion. Obviously, the Indians could use some upgrades in many areas. That's why they are not counted as a contender at present.

But given the desire to get a feel for this club's young talent at the Major League level, adding a veteran -- or, at least, the type of veterans the Indians could afford -- would, in most cases, gum up the works by blocking the development path of one of the kids.

Even trade talk involving the Tribe is quiet, because the Indians don't appear to be actively looking to move anybody on their roster.

Just call it the humdrum Hot Stove.

"We don't have a defined need," general manager Mark Shapiro said. "We want to get better. But the reason you don't feel pressure for us [to make a move] is we don't have a defined hole. We want to get better and improve and offset the volatility that goes with young players, but we don't have the pressure of having to complete a trade or sign a free agent."

If money weren't an issue, the Indians would jump into the market for a starting pitcher, a right-handed-hitting utility infielder and a right-handed bat who can help out at first base and in left field (in case Matt LaPorta's not fully recovered from hip and toe surgeries) -- probably in that order.

But money is, indeed, an issue. The Indians opened 2009 with an $81 million payroll. In 2010, that figure figures to be somewhere between $50 million and $60 million. The team already has about $48.5 million tied up into six players -- Travis Hafner ($11.5 million), Jake Westbrook ($11 million), Kerry Wood ($10.5 million), Grady Sizemore ($5.8 million), Fausto Carmona ($5.1 million) and Jhonny Peralta ($4.6 million) -- so there's not much wiggle room here.

Look for the Indians to sign a veteran utility infielder at some point this winter. The Indians had interest in Omar Vizquel, but he ranked the White Sox -- with whom he signed a one-year contract -- higher on his priority list, and he didn't exactly fit the Indians' need for a right-handed bat to spell Luis Valbuena at second base anyway.

The right-handed-hitting utilitymen on the market include Mark Loretta and Juan Uribe. Or the Indians could bring back Jamey Carroll. But he made $2.5 million last year, so it's questionable whether the Indians could afford him.

As far as starting pitching is concerned, new manager Manny Acta has made it clear he'd like the Tribe to pursue a veteran arm, regardless of veteran Jake Westbrook's status in his return from Tommy John elbow reconstruction surgery. Acta's thinking that you can never have enough pitching is accurate, though again, the Tribe's limited resources might make it difficult for the club to pull in anything more than a low-rung option.

However this plays out for the Indians, it's expected to play out slowly. The club will most likely let the market develop, then hope to swoop in and find some bargains late in the Hot Stove season.

Regarding trades, the Tribe isn't going to deal any of its young, controllable players. And since that eliminates the bulk of the roster, the only obvious trading chip is closer Wood. But in a winter in which the market for free-agent closers is robust, Wood and his hefty salary, particularly after his disappointing '09, aren't likely to draw much interest unless the Indians eat some of his salary.

One X factor that might emerge this winter and work in the Indians' favor is the non-tender situation. It has been speculated that teams might non-tender more players than usual by the Dec. 12 deadline, and that would deepen the free-agent pool and provide more opportunity for bargain-bin discounts.

"Obviously, teams are going to have to make decisions based on their individual economics and alternatives," Shapiro said. "The possibility is out there for a greater number of non-tenders. Any time there's a greater supply on the market, it's advantageous for anybody competing."

SOURCE