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  1. #31
    Hall of Famer Rich's Avatar
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    Default Re: the NBA is a joke - Dwight Howard wants to leave for New York or L.A.

    Quote Originally Posted by LJ4MVP View Post
    How do you fix it? In baseball, the yankees buy as many players as they can and contend nearly every year. In football, we just had the steelers and packers in the super bowl, two small market teams. Basketball used to be somewhere in the middle. But now the players are taking over the league.
    It was never in the middle. The NBA has always been largely dominated by major market teams. Half of the titles shave been won by either Boston or L.A. Throw in 6 more for Chicago and then the ones for Philly and Houston, and you've got a handful of titles to split up between the small market teams.

    Phills1 is right, small market teams will and do win championships. Hell, look at the best team in the league this year, San Antonio. It doesn't happen very often, but it HAS happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by David.
    Idiot

  2. #32
    Hall of Famer MoFlo's Avatar
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    Default Re: the NBA is a joke - Dwight Howard wants to leave for New York or L.A.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man Called X View Post
    Sorry, you're right. The season we were 1 rebound away from knocking them out of the playoffs.
    True, but they were still in the middle of their run. And that '05-'06 Cavs team didn't have nearly the amount of talent that last season's OKC team had..

  3. #33
    Hall of Famer Rich's Avatar
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    Default Re: the NBA is a joke - Dwight Howard wants to leave for New York or L.A.

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdy89 View Post
    People don't want to hear this, but a salary cap with max contracts actually encourages migration to the best markets because when the money is the same in all places, you are more apt to look at things like location and marketing opportunities.

    If I can make the same money (the extra year means nothing when the annual salaries are as close as they are) in Cleveland or Miami,NY or LA, why would I ever go to Cleveland?

    The NFL's cap wouldn't work in any other league really because no other league has the billions and billions of dollars to disperse to small markets from the TV deal like the NFL does. That is the nature of only playing once a week and only 16 games. NBA and MLB only command a fraction of the money on the TV deal the NFL does. That is not because of competitive balance or market size but because of the very nature of only playing 16 games vs. 162 or 82. It is two totally different worlds.
    The problem with your theory is that players wouldn't have the luxury of picking out any destination if there were a hard cap. Maybe Dwight Howard would like to go to New York because all the money is the same and Orlando can't offer him more, but who cares because New York is at or very near the hard cap.
    Quote Originally Posted by David.
    Idiot

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  5. #34
    Orange and Blue Doctor K's Avatar
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    Default Re: the NBA is a joke - Dwight Howard wants to leave for New York or L.A.

    I don't think this will last all that long to be honest... Once another team is formed in similar fashion and once the fans truly get tired of it to the point in which it trickles down to really hurt the small markets and the NBA starts to see the intetest slide (coinciding with the Lakers/Celtics championships wheels starting to fall off)--I'm sure you'll see a different blueprint to see a more balanced product throughout the league.... But it also falls into the laps of the GM's and scouts to continue to do their jobs to bring in the best young talent they can.... Also, I can see the players changing their views on it as well when their endorsement dollars and overall individual notoriety begins to dwindle...

    I really don't think we're going to see a changing of the guard here for the long haul... Just enough to keep the NBA relevant with a few top teams so it can stay afloat once the elite franchises' championship windows close....

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  7. #35
    Hall of Famer MoFlo's Avatar
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    Default Re: the NBA is a joke - Dwight Howard wants to leave for New York or L.A.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triumph36 View Post
    I haven't heard about any other superstars wanting to play in Miami. Nene, if I remember correctly, is the best player to have been linked to Miami and they were one of three teams he's interested in. Other role player type players flocking to Miami isn't a problem.

    But regarding stars, why is it so surprising that they are interested in playing in LA or NYC? LA is coming off b2b titles while NY is quietly on the upswing while building a good young core. Players want to win and those teams put players in a very, very good position to do just that.

    With CP3, his team isn't a contender and the only assets they have are David West (who is the 2nd best player on the team) and Marcus Thornton (who can't get consistent mins to even increase his value). They did have assets in Peja's expiring and Bayless but what did they do? Bring in CP3's "friend," who happens to play the same position as CP3, and a bunch of crap. Instead of making an upgrade and going for contention by targeting Iggy, for example, they go for.....crap. Is it so surprising that he wants to go elsewhere when the teams owner (well, former owner) wouldn't commit to building a contender?

    With Dwight, his team was a contender yet they felt the need to overhaul it now. That got them a bunch of expensive, aging role players in return and the team doesn't seem to be much better. He's basically in the same position as LeBron was in. He's surrounded by role players, many of which are older, and the team has little to no flexibility to make future significant improvements. I give ORL credit for trying to make strides to get better...but they just weren't able to bring in a significant upgrade and they won't be able to in the future. Is it so surprising that Dwight is considering walking away from that if they don't win a title?

    And then if they want to leave, where would it be "OK" to go? Small market teams, excluding OKC, typically don't have tons of cap space. Minnesota has/had a decent bit, but that organization isn't run well at all so I could see why stars would shy away from there. Sacramento has some young players and cap space....but with the likelihood of them moving the star wouldn't even know where he'd be playing in a few years.

    Again, I think CP3 and Dwight leaning towards leaving is totally understandable. But as far as where to go...which teams have the space to get it done and are actually appealing? Not many, for various reasons (such as the front office or future location, as noted above). NY just happens to have a lot of cap space and young talent coming up and LA has a good young center (tho he has injury probs) to offer via trade. It's the "perfect storm" so to speak: the team is good, has a committed front office, can actually acquire a star, and happens to be in an appealing city.
    Maybe I was wrong about Miami, but my point still stands.

    We've heard about people wanting to go to N.Y even before this season & before they had to settle for Amar'e, so I don't buy your "they happen to be very quietly on the upswing" argument. Don't get me wrong, they certainly are, but we've heard rumblings about New York even before this season.

    So L.A ends up with the most dominant center in the game because they have an injury prone good (when healthy) young center + a couple late 1st rd picks to offer in a trade? If that happens, this will just fuel my argument even more.

    As I said, I couldn't care less where they go if it's Free Agency. That's their choice. But if Howard ends up threatening Orlando with "trade me to L.A or I walk & you get nothing", it's complete & utter bullshit. It's screwing the system, as he knows L.A won't be under the cap to give him the $ he wants. So Orlando would be forced to take back whatever they can for the most dominant center in the game.

    That's my problem with the league.

  8. #36
    Orange and Blue Doctor K's Avatar
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    Default Re: the NBA is a joke - Dwight Howard wants to leave for New York or L.A.

    New York is definitely the spot as it's really a hidden gem within the league... It doesn't have the championship success as some other franchises so winning there would definitely be the ultimate for the NBA... One Knicks title would be fat greater than the Lakers/Celtics winning another... The fan base is phenomenal, the marketing opportunities have untapped potential and that arena is simply the best in the league... I'm truly shocked players don't flock to the Knicks like some of these other teams---but that's soon to change and you can feel that the Knicks are about to be one of those teams in the league that should be able to get some talent and make a run at a few of these titles...It's about to become the "it" team real soon...

  9. #37
    Veteran Triumph36's Avatar
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    Default Re: the NBA is a joke - Dwight Howard wants to leave for New York or L.A.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoFloDeepintheQ View Post
    Maybe I was wrong about Miami, but my point still stands.

    We've heard about people wanting to go to N.Y even before this season & before they had to settle for Amar'e, so I don't buy your "they happen to be very quietly on the upswing" argument. Don't get me wrong, they certainly are, but we've heard rumblings about New York even before this season.

    So L.A ends up with the most dominant center in the game because they have an injury prone good (when healthy) young center + a couple late 1st rd picks to offer in a trade? If that happens, this will just fuel my argument even more.

    As I said, I couldn't care less where they go if it's Free Agency. That's their choice. But if Howard ends up threatening Orlando with "trade me to L.A or I walk & you get nothing", it's complete & utter bullshit. It's screwing the system, as he knows L.A won't be under the cap to give him the $ he wants. So Orlando would be forced to take back whatever they can for the most dominant center in the game.

    That's my problem with the league.
    But players have been linked to NY because NY made it that way. They cleared the cap space to make it a possibility. Still, Bosh and Wade weren't really even linked there much, it was mostly just fans wishes. A Knick fan asked Bosh about NY in I think 2009 and Bosh laughed at it. Wade was asked by reporters and he said something along the lines of "they have to woo me." I don't remember any sources explicitly claiming those players were very interested. LeBron and Amare are the exception to that, though, as both of them were linked many times.

    Are Bynum + picks not enough? Dwight isn't demanding out now, just toying with the possibility in the future when he is a free agent. Hell, he doesn't even have to threaten Orlando. If he signs elsewhere, they get nothing. If they trade him, they get something. Not everything has to be a S&T, especially if he isn't taking much of a paycut to make it work, so ORL walking away with nothing is a possibility. Or they could get stuck S&Ting him somewhere (OKC, for ex) and just getting a few late 1sts in return.

    Still, Dwight isn't going to commit to some team, and then let said team trade half of their assets back to Orlando just so Orlando isn't getting screwed. If a superstar decides to leave their respective team, the team is more likely than not screwed for a few yrs. It doesn't matter if the player decides to go to Minnesota, New York, or somewhere in between. It's never going to work out for them.

  10. #38
    Hall of Famer MoFlo's Avatar
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    Default Re: the NBA is a joke - Dwight Howard wants to leave for New York or L.A.

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdy89 View Post
    How is that bullshit? Is Howard a slave to the Orlando franchise who should have no say in his future?

    If a player plays out their contract then it is their right to leave. Getting something will always be better than nothing, as Orlando found out when Shaq left in the 90's.

    Why should DH be forced to play for the Magic if he doesn't want to as long as he has played out his contract?

    The fact is guys who are winning championships don't leave. If the front offices couldn't make it work to get those guys championships, that is no ones fault but their own.

    The problem is that many teams want a free pass for poor talent evaluation by management in their failure to get teams over the hump. The players shouldn't be forced to suffer because team management was incompetent and couldn't put the right group together.
    Did you even read what I wrote?...

    I have no problem with him going where he wants to in FA. Even if he wants to take less $, that's on him.

    But if he were to tell Orlando "trade me to L.A or I walk", it completely devalues his trade value as no other team will give up anything close to what he's worth if they know he won't re-sign. Orlando would then have to take back whatever they could get from L.A. And Howard would only be doing it because he knows L.A won't be able to sign him for what he wants.

    Did I ever say that he should be forced to play in Orlando?

    Did I ever say he doesn't have a right to leave?

    Did I ever say it wouldn't be Orlando's fault if he did leave?

    Yeah, I didn't think so.

    The only thing that I would have a problem with is if he were to give the ultimatum of "trade me to Team A or I walk"

  11. #39
    Playin' for keeps... Spectre's Avatar
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    Default Re: the NBA is a joke - Dwight Howard wants to leave for New York or L.A.

    The problem with the NBA is that it's all about the city and has little/nothing to do with the talent of the team. These guys rarely even consider small market teams with talent but they're always looking to upgrade cities. It irks the hell out of me that lesser cities are held to a standard of "win a championship in X timeframe or you deserve to lose your star" but teams like the Heat and Knicks can swim in mediocrity (or in the Knicks case, feces) and there's not a peep from anyone when they reel in the biggest names.

    The league needs to do something to create some kind of competitive balance over the long haul. Players shouldn't be trapped in a bad situation forever but at the same time, teams in small cities shouldn't be trapped in a "win a title in 5 years or I'm leaving and you're getting jack shit in return" scenario. This new CBA needs to fix that or the NFL is going to continue to gain ground on the NBA until enough people stop caring for them to take notice.

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  13. #40
    Savior of Humanity InBoobieWeTrust's Avatar
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    Default Re: the NBA is a joke - Dwight Howard wants to leave for New York or L.A.

    Carmelo is a lock for NY, and make no mistake about it, Dwight Howard is a lock for L.A....oh, and Chris Paul is a lock for whichever one of those teams can pay him more in 2 years(probably L.A.)

  14. #41
    Veteran Triumph36's Avatar
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    Default Re: the NBA is a joke - Dwight Howard wants to leave for New York or L.A.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
    The problem with the NBA is that it's all about the city and has little/nothing to do with the talent of the team. These guys rarely even consider small market teams with talent but they're always looking to upgrade cities. It irks the hell out of me that lesser cities are held to a standard of "win a championship in X timeframe or you deserve to lose your star" but teams like the Heat and Knicks can swim in mediocrity (or in the Knicks case, feces) and there's not a peep from anyone when they reel in the biggest names.
    Huh? Miami "reeled in the biggest names" because they already had one and they had the cap space for the others. What is wrong with that? They structured their team in a way that would give them the most possible cap space in the off-season, and then got their star to convince other stars to join him there. The Miami trio coming together has nearly everything to do with the talent of the team.

    Most small market teams don't have the cap space to even sign superstars. How many teams had enough cap space to sign a superstar last off-season? What about when you remove ones with shitty front offices (LAC, MIN) that could dissuade a player from going there? Exactly how many were left? Not many.

    And the ones that could provide the best opportunities won out. Miami was able to squeeze three stars into their roster. New York was able to nab one while setting themselves up to have enough space to add another next off-season. Atlanta could offer JJ the most money and also a good, but not contending young team. Chicago could offer two very good young players along with some supplemental players.

    I think it's funny that you say it has nothing to do with the talent on the team when all the stars went to situations that put them in position to contend (except Amare will be contending next year and not this one).

  15. #42
    Rising Star ClevelandOwnz's Avatar
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    Default Re: the NBA is a joke - Dwight Howard wants to leave for New York or L.A.

    Um... Miami only has one championship and only has been to one finals I believe. The NBA had nothing to do with the 3 players coming together. If anything the NBA wanted LeBron in New York. So I dont see how Miami falls into this... hell even with the big 3 in Miami... The Dolphins and Miami U still ranks above the heat. They sell out all their games yes.. but a lot of seats usually are not packed when the crappy teams come to town. Miami will never be a basketball city.

  16. #43
    ButterMPancakes's Avatar
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    Default Re: the NBA is a joke - Dwight Howard wants to leave for New York or L.A.

    If the Magic don't win any titles and he plays out of his contract, I won't be surprised, nor mad at him leaving. . . team has no bright future (barring some sort of miracle trades), so I can't blame him for wanting to go somewhere easier to acquire stars.



    with that said, there's no way in hell that he goes to LA, unless the Lakers trade Gasol or Kobe, which I'm about 99.9% sure it won't happen. They don't have the cap space to sign him in FA and don't have any pieces to entice the Magic to trade another superstar center to LA

    New York, acquiring Melo, won't have the $$$ either. They might have some pieces to trade, but I doubt it. . . the most likely scenario would be OKC, but that's assuming the CBA doesn't change a whole lot and they get rid of everyone but Westbrook/Durant



    if Dwight goes to another team for the hope of winning a title (and not the bright lights like Amar'e), I'm not even sure why people would be mad. . . I guess he could stay in Orlando and watch management trying desperately to get rid of awful contracts and attempt to sign stars. . . not sure if that's the sight he's looking for, though

  17. #44
    So we come to it at last Chris's Avatar
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    Default Re: the NBA is a joke - Dwight Howard wants to leave for New York or L.A.

    What is it about basketball that brings out these fucking primadonnas? We don't see anything like this in MLB or the NFL I feel like, Am I wrong?

  18. #45
    ButterMPancakes's Avatar
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    Default Re: the NBA is a joke - Dwight Howard wants to leave for New York or L.A.

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdy89 View Post
    The Lakers are scared to death actually from what I read that Howard would sign with the Clippers. Laugh if you may, but Blake Griffin is totally turning around people's perception of the franchise as they are a hot ticket in LA right now.

    Kaman comes off the books that summer, and they will have money to spend for a guy like Dwight. Griffin, Howard and Eric Gordon would be a hell of a core and you get to still play in L.A.

    Blake Griffin is a franchise changing talent. The Clippers are in a good spot cap wise and if they find a way to play this right they have as bright a future as any team out there right now.


    I guess I should've said Lakers. . . completely forgot the Clippers existed





    oh yeah, and these are just "rumors", by the way. . . Dwight has never said any of it. . . good old Wojo

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