2012 Draft

[amil99]

6'3" shooting guard who looks good only when he has the ball in his hands and is not known for good defense is the perfect fit for a team which has this generation's Isiah as there PG. OBTW did I mention our PG is still learning how to play defense as wel

this whole post is irrelevent after the bolded. Read my post before you want to be sarcastic.

[catfish]

It seems like every good prospect is coming out-the opposite of last year-shows how lucky we were last year to get the only legit star prospect-only guy who is likely to stay I think is the freshman Zeller. Call me crazy. I want to move down to pick up Q Miller.

[tristan+kyrie=$]

Zeller entering the draft would put this draft as stacked again...its already approaching that level

[Pioneer10]

this whole post is irrelevent after the bolded. Read my post before you want to be sarcastic.

I'm not being sarcastic at all:

Notorious for his ability to score from the outside at the high school level, Rivers was very streaky this season, but lived up to his reputation in that regard for the most part. Shooting the ball with somewhat unorthodox mechanics that appear to be smoother off the bounce than in spot-up situations, Rivers gets great elevation on his jumper and has the footwork and quick dribble moves to get his shot off in virtually any situation.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz1pxOYRUlq
http://www.draftexpress.com

On the defensive end, Rivers was not an impact player. Playing with an inconsistent energy level, Rivers did a respectable job staying in front of his man when dialed in, but sometimes gave up penetration to more explosive players or was too aggressive stepping up to meet a ball-handler with a head of steam. Fairly assertive with his positioning, Rivers is a bit of a gambler, but on the whole, was fairly average defensively. Lacking great size and length for his position from a NBA perspective, Rivers could stand to add some muscle to his frame to prepare him for the rigors of the pro-game, as he'll need to make the most of his tools considering he does not stand out in any one area on this end of the floor.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz1pxOgvFUM
http://www.draftexpress.com

Although he's a year older than many of the players in his class

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz1pxOlz3dV
http://www.draftexpress.com

He sounds like a great fit next to a ball dominant PG. Rivers would be a good selection in the teens but as a top 10 selection would rather go full bore to get someone like Beal

[Pavlovic3Ball]

It seems like every good prospect is coming out-the opposite of last year-shows how lucky we were last year to get the only legit star prospect-only guy who is likely to stay I think is the freshman Zeller. Call me crazy. I want to move down to pick up Q Miller.

You're crazy.

[hud11]

I bet Rivers is going to move up the charts during workouts, he does seem a little frail, but that might come with time. Beal, Barnes, MKG, would all be ranked ahead of him in my mind, he's probably on the same playing field as Lamb at this point. If the cavs end up picking 8th or lower, its probably rivers or lamb, if they get up to 5-6, then hopefully they can get one of the top 3 wings I mentioned earlier. Either way, things seem to be shaping out pretty nicely.

[ajz20]

So now your calling half the board crazy and in denial?

News flash: rooting for wins doesn't make them happen.

Half the board was a hyperbole. Second, yes, our future will be decided based on our ability to add young core players. This draft will be a chance to add a major young stud to build with. You are not making the playoffs, so why would you want to lessen your chances of getting an Anhtony Davis, MKG, Harrison Barnes or Brad Beal?
We have had this discussion a million times, so I am not sure why are compelled to continue to argue. I am not going to budge about long term success versus short term success that is some nights fools gold because your second leading scorer is not apart of the franchise long term.
Look at the chart and see the percentages of moving in the top 3 based on where you finish in the standings. It has been posted many times.

Irving and TT can continue to grow and develop without us winning a ton of games. Finally, you will not be able to go from picking 9th or 10th to third without paying a very steep price (if it is even possible) It this not the NFL draft, which is a different animal. There is a reason why we were routing for the Clippers to lose after we acquired their pick,because we had a much better chance of "getting lucky at number 8 then if they had finished outside of the bottom 10. You chase the 8th seed in the playoffs like it is aa world championship. Your supporters have even advocated adding a veteran to help make a run. It shows how out of touch you are.

Anyways, there was a tweet from probasketballDraft saying Rivers has a shot to go top 10. That is great news for us!!!!!!!!!

[wuck]

This is a long article (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/...s-in-2012-3869) from Draft Express that explains why the whole declaration/draft process is more convoluted and confusing than ever this year. Basically, it's screwed up, especially for the players.

----
Testing the NBA Draft Waters in 2012

by: Jonathan Givony - President
March 22, 2012

There appears to be more confusion than ever this year about the NBA's early-entry draft process amongst college players, college coaches, NBA personnel and media members, due to rule changes made by the NCAA last May regarding collegiate eligibility.

To clear up some of the misinformation that is circulating, we've collected all the appropriate information we think prospects will need in order to make an informed decision on whether or not to enter the NBA draft this spring.

First, the applicable dates:

April 3: NBA Undergraduate Advisory Committee Application Deadline
April 6: NBA Undergraduate Advisory Committee Response Deadline
April 10: NCAA Early Entry “Withdrawal” Deadline
April 29: NBA Draft Early Entry Eligibility Deadline (11:59 pm ET)
May 3 or May 4: NBA Draft Early Entry Candidates Released
May 30: NBA Draft Lottery
June 6-8: NBA Combine/Pre-Draft Camp (Chicago)
June 18: NBA Draft Early Entry Withdrawal Deadline (5:00 pm ET)
June 28: 2012 NBA Draft

The main change that occurred this year involves the NCAA's unilaterally imposed “early-entry withdrawal deadline” of April 10th.

According to NCAA Proposal No. 2010-24, “student-athletes interested in 'testing the waters' of the NBA draft [are required] to remove their name from consideration before the first day of the spring National Letter of Intent signing period.”

The first day of the spring National Letter of Intent signing period is April 11th this year, meaning that any player that makes himself eligible for the NBA draft before then must remove it by April 10th in order to retain his collegiate eligibility.

Last year college players had until May 8th to evaluate their professional options, which gave them about a week to work out for NBA teams and gather feedback about their NBA draft stock. College players (like their international counterparts, who are not bound by the NCAA's rules) used to have until ten days before the draft (this year June 18th) to do their research and gather as much information as possible before making such an important decision for their future.

What this essentially means is that there is no more “testing the waters” anymore.

The reason for this change, in the NCAA's words is: “to help keep student-athletes focused on academics in the spring term and to give coaches a better idea of their roster for the coming year before the recruiting period is closed.”

This unilateral deadline imposed by the NCAA has been widely criticized by members of the basketball industry, as it is clearly a self-serving rule intended to protect the NCAA's own economic interests by severely restricting players' ability to explore their professional options.

The NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Issues Committee understood the concerns surrounding this dramatic change, including “the potential inability of student-athletes to gather all necessary information to make an informed decision, the disruption of team continuity during the latter part of the regular season/NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Championship tournament, and the increased media attention during the championship,” but nonetheless elected to push forward with it, with no change in sight.

The biggest issue with this new “early entry intention” date of April 10 is that it falls approximately three weeks before the NBA's own early-entry deadline of April 29th. Until the NBA officially disperses their list of underclassmen who have made themselves eligible for the NBA draft, teams cannot have any type of contact with those players, which obviously includes pre-draft workouts.

Since the NCAA bars third parties (even family members) of college players from reaching out to NBA teams to discuss their draft stock and the NBA itself has strict no-contact rules regarding the way teams can communicate with players who are not officially draft-eligible (before the early-entry list is released in early May), the only way an underclassman can gather information about his draft stock is through his college head coach. Furthermore, the head coach is only allowed to talk with the principal basketball operations executive from each team (ie: the general manager), according to NBA rules, and the underclassman may not participate in or be present during any such conversation.

To help with this process, the NBA is again offering underclassmen the ability to get actual feedback from a group of executives representing 20 NBA teams selected by the League Office, and chaired by NBA Executive Vice President of Basketball Operations Stu Jackson, called the NBA Undergraduate Advisory Committee.

According to NBA spokesman Tim Frank, who we corresponded with via email in researching this article, this committee consists of “General Managers, Assistant General Managers, and VP's of Player Personnel and the like who scout college basketball extensively during the college basketball season.“

NCAA underclassmen must apply for an evaluation in writing no later than April 3rd, which is the day after the Championship game of the NCAA tournament in New Orleans.

According to a memo that was dispersed by the NBA to all college coaches (published below), the NBA Undergraduate Advisory Committee with deliver their evaluation “to the player and/or his college coach…on or before April 6th.”

According to NBA spokesman Tim Frank “once the committee does their analysis of the player, the draft projection is communicated to the player, coach, or anyone else who the player designates, such as family, in a phone call in which the draft projection is shared and the player (or others involved) can ask questions about the projection and the draft process.”

Frank also explained via email that “we instruct our Committee members to provide as narrow of a draft range as they can with confidence, and they are not limited to the lottery, first round, second round, not drafted framework and other more specific descriptors covering ranges are much more commonly used. We collect the projections from our Committee members and summarize this information to the players and others who they designate, and the draft projections and ranges obviously vary based upon the given prospect.”

What's important to note (and has been widely misreported in the media), is that requesting an evaluation from the advisory committee does not constitute entering the draft. In fact, the application form explicitly states that “this application is not a declaration of eligibility for the 2012 NBA draft. A separate letter must be sent to Commission David Stern (received by April 29, 2012) declaring eligibility for the 2012 NBA draft. An application form for the 2012 NBA draft will be sent upon receipt of the letter of declaration.”

What that means is that, theoretically, a college player could still wait until April 29th to enter the NBA draft, as these are two separate deadlines, and there seemingly is no benefit at all to entering his name before, particularly since he will lose his NCAA eligibility if he does not remove it before April 10th.

For example if a player seriously injures himself between April 11th and April 29th, but had already sent a letter to David Stern declaring their eligibility for the 2012 NBA Draft, that player would be ineligible to return to school.

While college coaches would obviously love to have all of their answers regarding who will or will not return to their team by April 10th, so they can start their vacation early or get an early jump on next season, realistically there is no reason why an underclassmen wouldn't continue to privately investigate their NBA draft stock until April 29th.

Is the NBA Undergraduate Advisory Committee the answer then? While it's certainly noble of the NBA to try an assist with the process, it remains extremely difficult for a player to get an accurate gauge of their draft stock on April 6th, as there are just too many variables to predict that are out of anyone's control.

The NBA realizes as much, and has no qualms informing prospects of such, as you can read in the advisory committee application below: “The Committee's evaluation is, of course, only an educated assessment and is not binding in any way or a commitment of guarantee that a player will or will not be drafted in a certain slot or at all.”

Most NBA teams—who are in the midst of a very hectic lockout shortened season—will still be in very preliminary stages of their evaluation process in April, and may not be in a position to tell an underclassman with any real accuracy where he will be drafted on June 28th.

As veteran NBA agent Mark Bartelstein told ESPN's Andy Katz in January: “There are no sure answers in January, February or March. No one knows in even late April what's happening [with the draft]. You're asking kids to make decisions without accurate information. Teams don't know what they're doing. It's going to be a nightmare for college coaches…There will be all kinds of people telling [players] what they want to hear and don't have the real answer.”

From what we've gathered, the NBA Undergraduate Advisory Committee has traditionally been very conservative with the evaluations they've provided players. The last thing they want is to tell an underclassman they are a sure-fire first rounder in early April, only to see them slip into the second round or go undrafted in late June. That's why it's understandable that they would err on the side of caution.

Andrew Bynum for example was told by the advisory committee that he is a “late first round, early second round pick” according to a person involved in his decision, but ended up being drafted in the top-10. Kevin Martin was told that his projection was “late second round to undrafted,” but was eventually picked in the first round.

Private workouts conducted in June in front of coaching staffs can and will shift a player's draft stock dramatically in either direction, as can the results of the NBA combine, medical examinations, game film examinations and background intel sessions. Some underclassmen's stock will rise significantly—such as Tristan Thompson last year—and some will fall—such as Darius Morris or Josh Selby.

While the rules are very strict about how and when NBA teams can communicate with underclassmen, in actuality these conversations happen all year through back channel conversations.

While the May 8th withdrawal deadline that was in effect last year wasn't ideal by any stretch because it only allowed players to participate in a maximum of one or two NBA workouts, it still was far better than what is in place now, which allows for zero. With the previous deadline, players and their families enjoyed an entire week of unlimited contact with all 30 NBA teams. In that span an underclassman could call NBA executives directly and get individually tailored assessments about their standing with their organization, which is obviously far preferable.

With the situation that is in place now, a large number of players will be forced to make career-altering decisions with an impossibly small amount of information on April 29th (or if the NCAA will have their way—April 10th), something that benefits no one.

[Dr. Gymbo]

Regarding Austin Rivers declaring for the draft, this is Jigo's reaction somewhere in FL:



In all honesty, I don't know if Rivers would be a good fit next to Kyrie Irving. After seeing Kyrie play both positions this season with Ramon it makes me at least curious to the possibility, especially if the Cavs fall to 9-10. Even if the Cavs are at 8, it's likely that all of the other wing/shooting guard players are gone (MKG, Barnes, Beal). I think Rivers and Lamb are the next tier down from those three guys.

Who would you take between Lamb or Rivers? I think I'd have to go Lamb.

[NtG]

We already know that having two ball dominant guards on your team will not work (GOLDEN STATE). I absolutely do not want Rivers.

[Rob]

People seriously want Rivers over Beal? People seriously want Rivers playing with Kyrie?

[Jon]

Half the board was a hyperbole.

So you exaggerated your insult? And that makes it more appropriate, how?

Second, yes, our future will be decided based on our ability to add young core players. This draft will be a chance to add a major young stud to build with. You are not making the playoffs, so why would you want to lessen your chances of getting an Anhtony Davis, MKG, Harrison Barnes or Brad Beal?

I've explained to you many times why the Cavaliers would willingly lessen their chances.

We have had this discussion a million times, so I am not sure why are compelled to continue to argue. I am not going to budge about long term success versus short term success that is some nights fools gold because your second leading scorer is not apart of the franchise long term.
Look at the chart and see the percentages of moving in the top 3 based on where you finish in the standings. It has been posted many times.

Nobody is asking you to budge, and nobody needs a "chart" to understand odds & percentages, and nobody is even asking you to understand why a GM and an owner would consider other factors besides this. The question is why do you keep going out of your way to insult people you think disagree with you?

You chase the 8th seed in the playoffs like it is aa world championship.

Me? I'm not chasing anything. Our players are playing their collective asses off even though in your mind it means nothing. Go figure. I support their efforts, rather than your opinion that they should lay down.

Your supporters have even advocated adding a veteran to help make a run. It shows how out of touch you are.

I wasn't aware I had "supporters". Each person has their own opinion on the topic and if you want to argue one of their points, take it up with them.

I've never argued we should add a veteran to make a run, I've argued we should be willing to take on an overpaid veteran that'd likely improve our record if we got back a significant asset in addition such as a lottery pick or a promising young player.

Anyways, there was a tweet from probasketballDraft saying Rivers has a shot to go top 10. That is great news for us!!!!!!!!!

Except for those of us dreaming of him slipping all the way to the Laker's pick ...

[Noonan]

We already know that having two ball dominant guards on your team will not work (GOLDEN STATE). I absolutely do not want Rivers.

Agreed. Drafting Rivers would be just about the worst pick the Cavs could make. Has there been a quality playoff team in the last 20 years that had two ball-dominating guards? All it gets you is a few Sports Center highlights and trade rumors once management realizes the two guys don't fit.

[narbar32]

We already know that having two ball dominant guards on your team will not work (GOLDEN STATE). I absolutely do not want Rivers.

What Golden State was able to do with a different system and entirely different philosophy, and with different ball dominant guards, neither of which having the overall potential of Kyrie, doesn't result in us already knowing anything about how it would work, if at all, here.

What we do know is that Byron likes to use 2 PG lineups with some regularity, as he's done both here and with the Hornets. We also know that Kyrie can play off the ball pretty well. Finally, we should know that the Princeton offense, at least in theory, requires both guards to be solid ballhandlers, shooters, and passers.

What we don't know is whether Rivers has the mentality/ability to be effective in the NBA as an off-guard, even if he does get to play with the ball in his hands a fair amount, as well. We also don't know whether it's possible to break whatever curse has been cast upon him that has made him believe that his left arm has been amputated. I don't know if he has the strength and size to guard other SGs (I don't think so). Though you would think he'd be highly coachable, I don't know if his personality/attitude will allow for someone like Byron to get into his head and get him to cut back on those frequent plays where his overconfidence in his own handle causes him to try to do too much driving into traffic, resulting in a turnover.

I think, overall, I'm with you on not wanting Rivers, but mostly because I'd rather us be in a position to draft Beal or Lamb (and tournament be damned, I don't believe Beal has put as much distance between himself and Lamb as many here proclaim). Beal is an awesomely safe prospect, with good strength, adequate size, excellent mechanics in all facets, and off-the-charts intangibles, but his lack of elite ballhandling ability and explosiveness limit his potential a bit in my mind. Compare that to Lamb, who has excellent height for the position, tremendous length, better handles, more advanced offensive game generally, and more explosiveness, but poses very real strength concerns and has questionable intangibles. Classic higher floor/higher ceiling dichotomy between the two in my mind.

But if those two, along with the two SFs, TRob, and obviously Davis and Drummond are off the board, however, Rivers has to at least be in the conversation, regardless of what Golden Shithole did with their two guards.

[Rich]

Agreed. Drafting Rivers would be just about the worst pick the Cavs could make. Has there been a quality playoff team in the last 20 years that had two ball-dominating guards? All it gets you is a few Sports Center highlights and trade rumors once management realizes the two guys don't fit.

The Warriors with Baron Davis and Monta Ellis.

And the whole Warriors thing was so much more than Curry and Ellis not fitting, In my opinion, that was the least of the problems. The real problem was no size in the paint to speak of. They couldn't protect the rim to save their lives and it had nothing to do with Curry or Ellis.

And anyway, if this the road we feel like going down is "well, this hasn't worked for another team so we shouldn't do it" then you guys might to really think about that. Because can anyone name me a team in the last twenty years that actually won a championship in which its Point Guard was the best player on the team? You MIGHT be able to say the Pistons in '04. Rare is it when a PG led team actually wins titles, but I don't think that means we shouldn't try to be an exception with Kyrie.

Likewise, just because it didn't work out in Golden State with Curry and Ellis I don't think it means it should be avoided at all costs here. Especially considering my above statements about it being much more than just those two not fitting AND the fact that Kyrie Irving is already better than either of those two players have ever been.