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Thread: 2012 Draft

  1. #11866
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    Default Re: 2012 Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglar View Post
    I disagree with your assessment. A 3 month rental on Sessions was worth the #24 pick.

    There are a number lot lottery that expect to be competing again in short order. There is going to be at least one team that trades a top 14 draft pick for a vet player this year. There's no reason why Varejao couldn't be that player, other than the fact that the Cavs don't think they are getting a good value for Varejao with a pick in the 14-6 range and keep him.
    sessions is younger. sessions can score the basketball. there was a team with an immediate pressing need at the position. sessions made much less, and at least had an option year. the lakers still have his birds rights. if anything, using sessions actually proves my point as there was a specific demand that could be met by cleveland. when you find a team picking in the teens that is desperate for a 30+ year old, oft injured, offensively limited, hustle big, then let me know.

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    Default Re: 2012 Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by *L-Train* View Post
    they try to move up by using one of their picks and Dalembert's contract
    that makes more sense than just the kennedy tweet i quoted.

  3. #11868
    Hustling on the inside wuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 Draft

    Later news on the same issue:

    Amick: Source with knowledge of Rockets' strategy says we should slow down on the Dalembert trade talk that was coming from other teams.

    Jonathan Feigen: On reports of a Dalembert deal, was told "Not happening." Rox would like to move a pick, but also like Sam's contract. Long way to next Thu.

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    Default Re: 2012 Draft

    If Drummond falls to 7-8 I think it is worth moving up after him. He's a huge risk if he's all you get at #4, but if you walk away with MKG or Barnes at #4 and all you have to give up is Andy/#24/cap space to take a chance on Drummond, it is 100% worth it.

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  7. #11870
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    Default Re: 2012 Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by warddj86 View Post
    Kidd-Gilchrist has no reason to leave Beachwood anymore. He will be a Cav.

    If the draft DOESN'T turn out like this, I will be stunned.

    NOH: Anthony Davis, PF, Kentucky
    CHA: Thomas Robinson, PF, Kansas
    WSH: Bradley Beal, SG, Florida
    CLE: Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, SF, Kentucky
    ------------------------------------------------
    From there to the end, I THINK it will go like this:

    SAC: Harrison Barnes, SF, North Carolina
    POR: Damian Lillard, PG, Weber State
    GS: Austin Rivers, SG, Duke
    TOR: Jeremy Lamb, SG, Connecticut
    DET: John Henson, PF, North Carolina
    NOH: Andre Drummond, C, Connecticut
    POR: Terrence Jones, PF, Kentucky
    MIL: Tyler Zeller, PF/C, North Carolina
    PHX: Perry Jones III, SF/PF, Baylor
    PHI: Arnett Moultrie, PF, Mississippi State
    HOU: Meyers Leonard, C, Illinois
    DAL: Terrence Ross, SG, Washington
    MIN: Jared Sullinger, PF, Ohio State
    ORL: Royce White, PF, Iowa State
    BOS: Jeff Taylor, SF, Vanderbilt
    BOS: Andrew Nicholson, PF, St. Bonaventure
    ATL: Tony Wroten, PG, Washington
    CLE: Quincy Miller, SF, Baylor
    MEM: Evan Fournier, SG/SF/PF, France
    IND: Orlando Johnson, U of Cal-SB
    MIA: Fab Melo, C, Syracuse
    OKC: Moe Harkless, SF, St. John's
    CHI: Marquis Teague, PG, Kentucky
    GS: Draymond Green, PF, Michigan State

    If that happens and Drummond wakes up, New Orleans will be a team I don't want to see in a few years. Teams would have a hard time even getting a shot off in the lane against them.

  8. #11871
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    Default Re: 2012 Draft

    All this talk about Varejao and playoff runs got me thinking about something I saw on Twitter yesterday. Someone I follow was comparing the reg. season and playoff PER's of Dwyane Wade and Dirk Nowitzki. He found that, for every year after the 06 postseason, Dirk's playoff PER typically went up from the reg. season, while Wade's tended to dip in the playoffs. Why is this relevant? Well, I remember having a discussion about Varejao's lack of impact in the last two postseasons the Cavs played.

    I'm not really a fan of PER. I think it used incorrectly and treated as the be-all, end-all by those in favor of advanced stats. However, there is something to it. And if you look at Andy's PER (as well as other advanced metrics such as TS%, TRB%, WS/48), all his numbers tend to decrease in the postseason. Why is this? You can draw your own conclusions, but I have my own theory (that I can remember being thrown out there two years ago). Andy's biggest attribute is the fact that he never takes a play off. Regular season, postseason, 1st quarter, 4th quarter, he plays every possession like its his last. That's great during the regular season. Most guys don't play every game hard, let alone every possession, and it really helps the team win those close games where the smallest things become an even greater focus.

    The problem is that this doesn't happen in the playoffs. When the playoffs arrive, EVERYONE is playing hard. Once everyone is expending the same amount of energy and effort, that's where speed, quickness, athleticism, and skill come into play. Suddenly, Andy's advantage on those more talented than him is gone. As a result, he's less effective.

    Now, this has been the case each of the last three postseasons, otherwise known as the prime of Andy's athletic career. He's suffered several injuries since then, and he's gotten older. Best-case scenario, this team is competing in 2-3 years (which, if I'm being honest, I find to be a pipe dream). By that time, Andy is 31/32 and already in 10th or 11th season. That's a lot of miles, and its not even getting into the Olympics this year, so Andy really won't have a summer to rehab any nagging issues. This is already a guy who's seen his effectiveness take a hit when the real season starts, and we're expecting him to play at just as high a level 2-3 years down the line? Sorry, but if you believe that, then you're living in some sort of fantasy world where fatigue and injuries don't exist.

    Bottom line: If you have the chance to flip Andy for a top-7 pick in a strong draft, you do it and don't look back. If this really is a possibility (which is another post in itself), then the Cavs MUST take advantage.


    (For those that want to compare Andy's reg. season and postseason numbers for themselves, here you go: Anderson Varejao NBA & ABA Statistics | Basketball-Reference.com)

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  10. #11872
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    Default Re: 2012 Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by tsteele316 View Post
    when you find a team picking in the teens that is desperate for a 30+ year old, oft injured, offensively limited, hustle big, then let me know.
    How about you list his positive qualities as well when assessing his trade value? And 30+? He doesn't turn 30 until September 28.

    I could phrase my side of the question in an equally biased manner. What playoff team in the teens wouldn't give up their pick for a 29yr old 6'11" all-defensive team big who can play the 4 and 5 while putting up a near double-double and playing his ass off every night?

  11. #11873
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    Default Re: 2012 Draft




    Andre Drummond: The player who could cause the Warriors’ biggest draft room debate
    POSTED BY TIM KAWAKAMI ON JUNE 21ST, 2012 AT 12:10 PM | CATEGORIZED AS COLLEGE BASKETBALL, NBA, WARRIORS

    * Marcus Thompson II’s latest: Dion Waiters and Terrence Ross are in the mix for the No. 7 pick, which definitely is true and also indicates how wide-open the possibilities remain for the Warriors as they try to figure out who’s going 1-thru-6.

    -If the Warriors are thinking big–in literal and metaphoric terms–there’s no potential draft option at the No. 7 slot bigger than UConn’s Andre Drummond.

    He’s a big, big power forward with impressive skills, he’s still only 18, and Drummond could have a real chance to be a difference-maker in this league.

    Stated simply: Other than presumptive No. 1 pick Anthony Davis, no player in this draft might have more top-end talent than Drummond…. and top-end risk, too.


    And we know the Joe Lacob Warriors always aim to think big. Thinking big is practically the singular definition of the Lacob’Guber ownership so far.

    Big promises, big plans, big shows, big ideas, big names, big thinking.

    So… If Drummond isn’t selected in the top-6, which is possible, do the Warriors take him at 7, and accept that it’s a boom/bust gamble, to fulfill their quest for big-ness?

    I think if the GSW turn comes up and Drummond is still there, Drummond would have some support, possibly from the main “Think Big” components of the organization.

    And I’ve heard that Lacob himself is prodding the front office to look for post players in the draft, if there’s no obvious elite talent available at other positions. (Not necessarily for Drummond, I should point out.)

    But in this scenario, there almost certainly would be draft room voices on the other side–people who believe that Drummond is too risky and too much of a project for a team that wants to win as soon as possible and do it with players who love basketball.

    Drummond might not be one of those love-basketball guys; his stats at UConn were wholly unimpressive and he never seemed to rise up against larger challenges.

    Anybody that big and talented and occasionally listless in college could potentially be devoured in the NBA by the likes of Blake Griffin, Zach Randolph and LaMarcus Aldridge.

    But you look at the guy and think, with some direction, he could be a very intriguing NBA power forward–there are physical comparisons to a young Amare Stoudemire and the Warriors haven’t had anyone resembling that in decades.

    So I think if Drummond’s there, this one could get a little heated in the draft room; this is part of what Lacob said he wanted when he put together this crowded front office and especially when he brought in Jerry West, who is no shrinking violet, of course.

    Lacob said he wanted strong opinions and good debate, and then he wants a consensus.

    It’ll be up to GM Bob Myers, running his first draft, to forge that consensus and then up to Lacob to sign off on it.

    And I think particularly in a case with a guy like Drummond, coach Mark Jackson’s voice has to be heard: Does he think he can get the most out of this guy?

    Interestingly, the Warriors’ experience with Jeremy Tyler, last year’s second-round experiment, might have a large effect on any thoughts of Drummond, who is far more developed than Tyler was last year but has some similar question marks.

    No matter what, if Drummond’s on the board, there will be strong opinions, coming from a lot of different backgrounds.

    All of the negative stuff… that’s why the six teams ahead of the Warriors might pass on Drummond. That the conundrum for the Warriors: If Drummond had no issues, he’d never be a possibility for them at 7.

    With the issues, he could be staring at them when it’s time to pick next week.

    I think at this point it’s probably 40/60 that Drummond gets past Portland at 6, especially with reports emerging that Thomas Robinson bested Drummond in a workout for Cleveland recently.

    Of course, Drummond could still get snapped up 2nd, 4th, 5th or 6th, and one of the other presumed top-echelon guys could raise the debate in the Warriors’ draft room.

    I think if Barnes slips through, he’s the easiest pick for the Warriors, even if they’re falling in love with Waiters now.

    And if Drummond’s the presumed top-6 guy who falls through, I would love to hear how that discussion goes, though I would guess we’ll hear about it soon afterwards.

    Do I think the Warriors should take him if he’s there for them? Give me a few days on that one. I’m just presenting options right now and sifting through the information…

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  13. #11874
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    Default Re: 2012 Draft

    someone mentioned big picture. so here is the lotto bunch.

    Last edited by Homer Safari; 06-21-2012 at 03:57 PM.

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  15. #11875
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    Default Re: 2012 Draft

    can someone post ford's latest blog

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    Default Re: 2012 Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by RikSmits View Post
    Here you are:



    Is that Aaron Goldhammer in the photo?

  17. #11877
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    Default Re: 2012 Draft

    After that very helfpful post I will ask again can someone post ford's blog where he talks about drummond dropping and latest workouts

  18. #11878
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    Default Re: 2012 Draft

    2012 NBA Draft - Workout buzz on top prospects - ESPN

    The NBA individual workout circuit is almost complete. By now, most of the top players have completed their workouts or will complete them by the end of the week. We'll be watching closely over the next week to see if any workouts are added or if players are asked to come in for a second workout.

    Here is a look at the top six players on our Big Board, with a rundown of where they have and haven't worked out.

    1. Anthony Davis
    Workouts: Hornets (6/19)
    Analysis: It's hard to call this a "workout." Davis went in for a visit, met with team officials, had a physical and talked with reporters. It's not uncommon for the No. 1 pick to skip workouts altogether and just do visits. He doesn't need to go anywhere else. He's the No. 1 pick in the draft.

    2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
    Workouts: Wizards (6/15), Bobcats (6/18), Cavaliers (6/20)

    Analysis: Unless something changes, Kidd-Gilchrist is done working out. He won't be visiting the Kings, Blazers or anyone else.

    Team sources (sorry, can't take the agent's word on these) all say he looked good in workouts. He's not much of a drills guy and didn't particularly shine in those. However, I'm told he shot the ball pretty well wherever he went. Where Kidd-Gilchrist really stood out was in the competitive parts of the workouts. I heard he was especially aggressive going against Bradley Beal in Charlotte on Monday. Kidd-Gilchrist did tweak his back a little toward the end of the Charlotte workout, but was fine in Cleveland.

    I'm told that his workout may have moved the needle a little in his favor during that Charlotte workout. The whole team was wowed by his competitiveness there. He's in the mix along with Thomas Robinson and Harrison Barnes at No. 2.

    The Wizards have really liked him all season. But with the recent trade that landed them Trevor Ariza as part of the deal, I think it points them strongly in the direction of Beal.

    The Cavs have their list narrowed down to MKG, Beal and Barnes. It's very difficult to get a read right now on which way the Cavs are leaning. I think if Beal's there, he's the most obvious candidate. They need a 2 desperately and need the shooting. If it's Kidd-Gilchrist versus Barnes, it may be a toss-up.

    I don't see Kidd-Gilchrist slipping past the Kings at 5. No, he didn't work out there, but I don't think the Kings really need him to. He's exactly what they need.

    3. Bradley Beal
    Workouts: Wizards (6/14), Cavaliers (6/16), Bobcats (6/18)
    Analysis: Beal is also done working out for teams unless someone trades into the top four.

    Beal has been terrific in all three workouts, according to team sources. He's shooting the ball very well and, like Kidd-Gilchrist, is a very aggressive and competitive player in workouts.

    I don't, however, get the feeling that he's at the top of Charlotte's list. It sounds to me like Robinson, Kidd-Gilchrist and Barnes all have a slight edge there. That might have to do with Gerald Henderson. The Bobcats really like him and may feel the need to add talent at a position where they need more help.

    As I wrote in Mock 8.1, I think Beal is a perfect fit in Washington thanks to the trade that swapped Rashard Lewis for Trevor Ariza and Emeka Okafor. The Wizards need both a 2 and a shooter, and Beal looks like the perfect fit.

    If he doesn't go to Washington, I also think he's the slight favorite for the Cavs at No. 4. At this point, I think his agent is right in that he won't slide past the fourth pick.


    4. Thomas Robinson
    Workouts: Wizards (6/13), Cavaliers (6/20), Bobcats (6/22)
    Analysis: After Robinson finishes his workout in Charlotte on Friday, he's also done working out, I'm told.

    The workout in Charlotte will be a big one for him. He's going head-to-head against Andre Drummond there. The Bobcats really liked Kidd-Gilchrist in his workout because of his aggressiveness and toughness. If Robinson can match that intensity on Friday, I think he has the leg up to go No. 2.

    I don't really see Robinson going to Washington or Cleveland based on team needs. The Wizards are loaded with bigs. The Cavs rolled the dice on Tristan Thompson at No. 4 last year and I doubt they'll bring in Robinson. He's too similar to Thompson.

    I don't, however, think he needs to work out in Sacramento. If he's on the board at No. 5, I think the Kings take him, no questions asked. He'd be a very good complement to DeMarcus Cousins in the low post.

    [+] Enlarge

    AP Photo/Charlie Riedel
    Barnes could go as high as No. 2 to the Bobcats.
    5. Harrison Barnes
    Workouts: Raptors (6/14), Cavaliers (6/16), Wizards (6/19), Bobcats (6/21)
    Analysis: Barnes' last scheduled workout is today in Charlotte. He had another workout scheduled in Sacramento, but he's canceled it and it doesn't sound like he's rescheduling.

    Barnes' biggest workout was Thursday in Charlotte. While Robinson and Kidd-Gilchrist would give the team toughness, defense and energy, Barnes would deliver something else the Bobcats desperately need: scoring. His two years playing for the in-state Tar Heels wouldn't hurt, either. As I'm writing this, I haven't yet received word on how he looked in his workout there, but he is in the mix at No. 2.

    Barnes also had a strong workout in Washington on Tuesday. He went against John Shurna and Kris Joseph and by all accounts looked great. I do think he's an option for the Wizards at No. 3 if they decide to pass on Beal or if the Bobcats take Beal at No. 2. The Wizards believe Barnes can play some 2 and desperately need a great shooter.

    Barnes also is a serious candidate to go No. 4 to the Cavs. As I've reported previously, the Cavs had Barnes No. 2 on their Big Board last year behind Kyrie Irving and is an obvious fit there. The team needs more shooters and could use the help at the 3. If Beal is off the board, I think it comes down to Barnes and Kidd-Gilchrist. While reports out of Cleveland said Beal bested Barnes at their workout together, team sources say the Cavs don't put a huge amount of stock in workouts and that both players were very good.

    If Barnes slides past the Cavs, I think the Kings will scoop him up at No. 5.

    6. Andre Drummond
    Workouts: Kings (6/14), Blazers (6/16), Wizards (6/18), Cavs (6/20), Bobcats (6/22)
    Analysis: Drummond is the odd man out trying to work his way into the top five. I'm told that his upcoming workout in Charlotte will be his last, though he might have to revise that if he believes the Kings and Blazers might pass on him at No. 5 and No. 6.

    I've heard he had strong workouts in Sacramento and Portland, and I've also heard that the Wizards and Cavs workouts weren't as strong. Sports Illustrated's Sam Amick reported that Robinson destroyed Drummond in the Cavs workout. I haven't heard it described that strongly, but I do think Robinson was considerably more aggressive, and thus much better. Given the age difference, experience gap and different styles, you could expect that, however.

    They'll have a chance to go head-to-head again in Charlotte. I do think Drummond gets a long look at No. 6 if he falls to the Blazers. However, it's not a guarantee. The team is also high on Damian Lillard and Dion Waiters and could decide they need a scoring guard over a big man project. If he slides past there, the Warriors and Pistons are his next two places to fall.

    Other workout notes:
    • Dion Waiters sits No. 7 on our Big Board. Some have been reporting he didn't do any team workouts, but that isn't true. I was in Vegas to watch Waiters work out on May 22 and 23, and the Raptors' Bryan Colangelo and Ed Stefanski were in there with me on May 23. You can read about his workout here.

    • Weber State's Damian Lillard has been doing only solo workouts. So far he has worked out for the Raptors (6/12), Kings (6/13), Blazers (6/15) and Warriors (6/17). The Hornets have been trying to get him in, but he'll come only if they agree to a solo workout. It's an interesting strategy for Lillard; I'm not sure whether it's going to help him or hurt him.

    Of the teams he's worked out for, it sounds like the Blazers are the highest on him. He had a very strong workout in Portland that ended with a dinner invite from Paul Allen. The question is whether the Blazers take him at No. 6 or No. 11. With teams like the Warriors, Raptors and Hornets also high on Lillard, he might not be around by the 11th pick.

    • Finally, Duke's Austin Rivers has kept his workout range very narrow. He's worked out for the Wizards (6/19), Blazers (6/20), Raptors (6/14) and Hornets (6/4). He also has an upcoming workout with the Cavs. That's essentially picks 3-11. I'm told he won't work out for the Bucks at No. 12 or the Suns at No. 13. While Rivers doesn't have a promise, I'm told he strongly believes he's not sliding out of the top 11.

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  20. #11879
    Hustling on the inside wuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 Draft

    team sources say the Cavs don't put a huge amount of stock in workouts
    Cavs seemed to put enough stock into workouts last year...

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    Default Re: 2012 Draft

    Michael Jordan would mess this up for the Cavs and take MKG.

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