The Lebron Safari 2014

[metalman213]

So what you're saying is that being clutch only accounts for 5 seconds in a game?

Now i will agree that with <5 seconds on the clock, i'd rather have Kobe than Lebron, but over those other 47+ minutes i'd go with James. So few games come down to hitting a shot with less than 5 on the clock that i'd live with it. And so would others ---> http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2012...cs-conference/

modelonte....is this what you meant by nuanced and thoughtful discussion?

so this whole discussion didnt stem from lebron passing the final shot in the asg, utah, and others? of course the other 47 minutes of basketball he is wonderful. thats not what is being debated. you are saying that the whole last shot thing is overblown, but its not.

[jay_em]

No what im saying is clutchness is not relegated to ONLY the last 5 seconds in a game. Flash back to James' Game 5 versus the Pistons. Are you saying the only "clutch" play James made was the gw lay-up? Those other 20 some odd almost consecutive points weren't clutch. Thats absurd.

[metalman213]

no, but the last few pages have been specifically his reluctance to take game winners, and the 'unfair' criticism that is put on him because he wont take or misses the shots. the criticism is fair.

[jay_em]

Criticize him for not taking the shot in Utah if you will, no biggie to me. There's no right or wrong answer there merely opinions. My issue isn't with those saying he should have taken the shot. Its with the attached narrative of unclutch, scared, no clutch gene, all ways fails etc.... for those statements say did you miss the EC Semis and Finals last year. You dont have to take every gw shot that comes your way. No one has, not even the "GOAT".

[blue_kahuna]

Jay_em just wants everyone to think that clutchness is making shots in the last 48 minutes of a game and not the last 5 seconds.

[KCOTT]

Jay_em just wants everyone to think that clutchness is making shots in the last 48 minutes of a game and not the last 5 seconds.

I don't think that defines being clutch either if you're only looking at the last 5 seconds. Basically, you're just proving who's the better jump shooter and not necessarily the more clutch player. I don't know, I guess I'd rather have LeBron than Kobe in the last 2 minutes if my team was down. Sure if it came down to a single jump shot with less than 5 seconds left, I guess I take Kobe. But I don't know if that really makes him more clutch than LeBron, a better jump shooter, yes.

[jay_em]

Jay_em just wants everyone to think that clutchness is making shots in the last 48 minutes of a game and not the last 5 seconds.

yeah cuz thats what i said/was saying.

[blue_kahuna]

I don't think that defines being clutch either if you're only looking at the last 5 seconds. Basically, you're just proving who's the better jump shooter and not necessarily the more clutch player. I don't know, I guess I'd rather have LeBron than Kobe in the last 2 minutes if my team was down. Sure if it came down to a single jump shot with less than 5 seconds left, I guess I take Kobe. But I don't know if that really makes him more clutch than LeBron, a better jump shooter, yes.

I'd rather have #6 in Miami handling the ball with the game on the line PROVIDED he makes the highest percentage play. And that I mean, not passing to Udonis Haslem for a jump shot. If he was passing to a jump shooter like James Jones or Mario Chalmers, then I can understand but Udonis Haslem? The pass was the correct one but not to the correct person so fundamentally, it's the correct play but not the highest percentage play from my point of view. Until he learns how to make the "high percentage" play and not the "right play", he'll never get over that stigma of a choker in the 4th quarter.

[blue_kahuna]

yeah cuz thats what i said/was saying.

How does #6's salty balls taste after games?

[MRMsix6]

I'd rather have #6 in Miami handling the ball with the game on the line PROVIDED he makes the highest percentage play. And that I mean, not passing to Udonis Haslem for a jump shot. If he was passing to a jump shooter like James Jones or Mario Chalmers, then I can understand but Udonis Haslem? The pass was the correct one but not to the correct person so fundamentally, it's the correct play but not the highest percentage play from my point of view. Until he learns how to make the "high percentage" play and not the "right play", he'll never get over that stigma of a choker in the 4th quarter.

Haslem typically drills that shot. I'm sure the percentages are available, but that shot was right in his wheelhouse.

[blue_kahuna]

Haslem typically drills that shot. I'm sure the percentages are available, but that shot was right in his wheelhouse.

Last year maybe but this year? His FG percentage is barely above 40%. Tell you what, game 7, NBA Finals. Do you want #6 to pass to Haslem for the game wining jump shot?

[Tlyons]

A waste of G.O.A.T. talent. That is why he is held to a higher standard. That is why he gets unfair criticism. He chose to chase championships in his prime with the potential to be the best who ever played(FA or not). Wade didnt leave and bosh isn't great. Therefore expectations aren't nearly as high for those two.

Personally I think childhood issues and being given too much too soon has turned him into this entitled, attention-seeking, acceptance-wanting megalomaniac.

[Pavlovic3Ball]

As soon as he win his 1st championship he won't nearly be criticized as much as he is. All of the all time great players have had their shortcomings. Hakeem Olajuwon lost in the 1st round 8 times. Larry Bird lost with home court advantage like 7 times. There was a time where people didn't think you could win a championship with Jordan because of his style of play. Even his own coach (Collins) thought this at one point. Shaq has been swept in the playoffs 6 times. Magic Johnson was nicknamed Tragic Johnson after he choked in the Finals in 84. Kobe's lost a Finals series playing with 3 hall of famers, quit in a 7 game series, and was historically blown out in a Finals closeout game. 1 Ring and he is in the top 10 imo. 2-3 rings and he is easily top 3-5 imo.

[Tlyons]

You could be right.

But I don't think it's so simple. He has to dominate the entire playoffs and finals and close out the majority of close games(especially in the finals) to achieve top 5 status IMO.


Edit: multiple times

[Pavlovic3Ball]

You could be right.

But I don't think it's so simple. He has to dominate the entire playoffs and finals and close out the majority of close games(especially in the finals) to achieve top 5 status IMO.


Edit: multiple times

Agreed. He needs to have a great Finals series eventually. He also needs to win a Finals MVP. In his case, at least two. But who knows if he even gets one? Going to be interesting to see how things end for him when all is said and done. Persoanlly, I think he wins at least two Finals with the Heat and he jumps aboard some other up and coming team to play for them. I don't see any team currently constructed that could beat them in a 7 game series. If Mavs kept their team intact, I would have definitely gave them a shot.