View Poll Results: Who Will Win the 2012 Presidential Election?

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  • Barack Obama

    70 60.87%
  • Mitt Romney

    42 36.52%
  • Electoral College Tie

    3 2.61%
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  1. #781
    Duh Amherstcavsfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gov. Rick Perry: The Candidate Obama Would Fear the Most

    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheReg View Post
    How was my statement about Obama being the most radically liberal president in US history incorrect?
    So we are throwing out FDR and LBJ now?

    Rising out of the ashes

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  3. #782
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    Default Re: Gov. Rick Perry: The Candidate Obama Would Fear the Most

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandname View Post
    If those questions are directed at me personally, I don't think the government should kill anyone at all. Not as the decider of guilt, or acting as the agent of delivering a sentence given by a jury.

    The premise of my question is that it seems (to me) to be contradictory in that the conservative position say, on health care, is that they don't want taxpayers to fund a system whereby the government pays for health care costs, even though the health care decisions are made between a doctor and patient. Usually cited is that the government can't be trusted to perform that function well and that it's too much intrusion into the lives of its citizens. From my point of view, all of those same arguments can be made for the death penalty. Like the doctor-patient relationship, the jury-defendant relationship might not involve the government, but the financing and execution involve the government. They seem to have a lot of parallels, and I'm trying to see how those two starkly different views can be reconciled.

    And the "moral" aspect is kind of a separate aspect of it, I think. To me, I would think a culture of life would include everyone, from the most innocent of children to the most abominable of criminals.
    Apples to oranges.

    A conservatives contention is that if government gets "between" a doc and a patient, it's no longer between the doc and the patient. That's not even close to what goes on with a jury of your peers who decides guilt or innocence.

  4. #783
    #howu Noonan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gov. Rick Perry: The Candidate Obama Would Fear the Most

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandname View Post
    And the "moral" aspect is kind of a separate aspect of it, I think. To me, I would think a culture of life would include everyone, from the most innocent of children to the most abominable of criminals.
    The "culture of life" stops once the baby is out of the womb. At that point it's survival of the fittest.

  5. #784
    Dan Gilbert goes to 11 $ Donator Brandname's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gov. Rick Perry: The Candidate Obama Would Fear the Most

    Quote Originally Posted by DougHeil View Post
    Apples to oranges.

    A conservatives contention is that if government gets "between" a doc and a patient, it's no longer between the doc and the patient. That's not even close to what goes on with a jury of your peers who decides guilt or innocence.
    I don't know, government-appointed judges hold a lot of sway in a trial, even with a jury. What they allow to pass in a courtroom can have a huge impact on the judgment of the case.

  6. #785
    G.O.A.T. OnTheReg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gov. Rick Perry: The Candidate Obama Would Fear the Most

    Quote Originally Posted by Amherstcavsfan View Post
    So we are throwing out FDR and LBJ now?
    I'd say Obama definitely carries on their traditions of expanding entitlements and individual dependence on the government teat. Where he changes most drastically from them is his view that America is inherently and at its roots a "bad country" (i.e. the apology tours in Europe, disregarding our alliances with old friends, attending that batshit church for 20 years, etc.)

    FDR and LBJ had horrible policies that were/are antithetical to American ideals, including LBJ's destruction of the black family and community through his "Great Society," but I don't believe they thought America was an antagonistic force in this world like Obama does.
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  7. #786
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    Default Re: Gov. Rick Perry: The Candidate Obama Would Fear the Most

    Quote Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
    The "culture of life" stops once the baby is out of the womb. At that point it's survival of the fittest.
    You say "survival of the fittest" (funny that liberals LOVE Darwin except when they don't; don't worry, I believe in evolution too even though I have conservative tendencies), I say "all men are created equal...but this sure as hell doesn't ensure equal outcomes...that is up to the individual."
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  8. #787
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    Default Re: Gov. Rick Perry: The Candidate Obama Would Fear the Most

    Quote Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
    A predominantly conservative Supreme Court stepped in and said this man's case needs to be reviewed before he is put to death. Senator John Cornyn, not exactly a pinko commie, has gone on record and said he questions a death sentence for this guy.

    The psychiatrist who testified in the case said blacks and latinos are a greater threat to society. The six other prisoners on death row who had this shrink testify have all had a re-sentencing hearings because of the racist crap this guy said. Can you guys read more about the case before flaming on about the awesomeness of capital punishment?

    I'm not a huge Perry fan, but i'm not sure this is anything scandalous that he should be taking a lot of heat over. A governor, especially in Texas, has a tremendous amount of responsibilities and a limited amount of time. Any governor has limited amount of time to analyze these cases and just stick to the key facts. In this case, this guy was a double murderer...100% guilty. That's probably why Perry didn't stop it and left the rest of it up to the courts. The shrink sounds like the problem, not Perry. It's grossly unfair that bloggers are already trying to spin this into "Perry agrees with psychologist that Blacks and Latinos are threat to society"...that's not remotely close ton what happened here. It's worth noting that in all those other cases, the criminals were sentenced again to die.

    Capital punishment is a real tough issue for me. One morning I wake up and say that no one has the right to end anyone's life. The next day i'll hear a story about some monster committing unimaginable crimes and I think, hey that monster has forfeited his right to exist! I'm a huge flip flopper on the issue. Abortion is even a bigger problem for me. Who the hell am I to decide when it's a life? Kids survive abortions all the time. So were they not a living thing when the doctors were attempting to kill them??? These are both complicated issues and I have no idea who is right, so i tend not to argue them or use them as an absolute litmus test when voting.

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    Default Re: Gov. Rick Perry: The Candidate Obama Would Fear the Most

    This article is more about attackwatch.com but there is one part of it that is very interesting. I'm also thinking that it could be absolutely true and could be done very easily on most any blog or discussion forums that discuss politics.

    AttackWatch.com is the Administration's Latest Propaganda Arm
    By David Limbaugh
    9/16/2011

    President Obama's official re-election campaign has set up a website ostensibly to defend him against false attacks, but its obvious purpose is to smear Republicans and propagandize. What could be more shameless??

    Jim Messina, Obama's re-election campaign manager, in a fundraising email announcing the website, said: "Forming the first line of defense against a barrage of misinformation won't be easy. Our success will depend on a team of researchers and writers to stay on the lookout for false claims about the President and his record, bring you the facts, and hold our opposition accountable."?

    Does any rational person believe these people anymore? They trade in lies and misinformation, and the only chance they have to re-elect Obama -- and it's still slim -- is to grossly distort Obama's record and fabricate fantasies about his opposition.?

    That's what this new website is all about. It's called "AttackWatch.com," but it should be called "AttackDog.com." It has already proved that in its first few days of existence. When I opened the website for the first time, I saw revolving pictures of Obama's currently front-running GOP rivals, Rick Perry and Mitt Romney, with the accompanying captions "Rick Perry's massive jobs lie" and "Romney's job chart shows flawed understanding of the facts." Glenn Beck's photo also rotates into view with the line "Glenn Beck twists the facts on Israel."?

    Do you ever remember a White House -- and make no mistake about who's behind this ruse -- soliciting hordes of followers to do opposition research for it? Then again, we've never before had a community organizer in the Oval Office.?

    The pseudo-indignation of Obama's supporters rings hollow when measured against Obama's very mode of operation throughout his term of office. On every major issue, Obama's practice has been to select, isolate and demonize a target, from fat cat bankers to insurance companies making obscene profits to the greedy rich who didn't want to pay their fair share of taxes to Chrysler's secured creditors who were slandered because they resisted his scandalous debt restructuring scheme.?

    The concept of this website is perversely amusing when you consider the administration's history of manipulating the Internet for political gain. I reported in my book "Crimes Against Liberty" that the Obama-Holder Justice Department had formed a secret in-house blogging group to participate on websites to influence public opinion. Dubbed the "Blog Squad," this political operation was operating out of the very halls of the institution dedicated to administering justice in the United States. On the taxpayers' dime, it was paying partisan political operatives to scour the Internet for news stories, commentaries and blog posts critical of the administration's agenda and then post comments supporting the administration -- all without identifying who was behind the posts.?

    Some of the administration's advisers didn't even disguise their intent to use the Internet deceitfully for political purposes. One of Obama's "closest confidants," Cass Sunstein, as head of the administration's Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, has openly advocated the government's use of fake websites and outside 501(c)(3) interest groups to front as independent supporters of government policy and to -- get this -- "cognitively infiltrate" opposing websites.?

    What, you ask, is "cognitive infiltration"? That's easy. Salon's Glenn Greenwald -- no right-wing extremist -- wrote that while at Harvard Law School in 2008, Sunstein co-wrote "a truly pernicious paper proposing that the U.S. Government employ teams of covert agents and pseudo-'independent' advocates to 'cognitively infiltrate' online groups and websites -- as well as other activist groups -- which advocate views that Sunstein deems 'false conspiracy theories.'"?

    In other words, one of Obama's right-hand men suggested that government employees masquerade as private citizens to "infiltrate" websites and try to influence public opinion as if they were just random citizens. Before you pooh-pooh this because it purports to be in opposition only to "conspiracy theories," remember that this administration's Justice Department used government publications to defame tea party protesters and returning veterans as conspiracy theorists, racists, religious nuts and domestic terrorists. If you think Sunstein's proposed surreptitious activities are limited to the innocuous exposure of crazies, you have another think coming.?

    If Obama were to run on his actual record in office -- the worst of any president in modern history -- he would receive a smaller percentage of votes than any president in history. The poverty rate is at a 50-year high, and we have catastrophic unemployment, especially black unemployment, an economy near depression, a doubling of the national debt and a trail of corruption involving untold billions from Stimulus Sr., of which Solyndra is just one example.?

    The recent New York and Nevada elections and Obama's ever-cratering approval ratings show how desperately he is hemorrhaging support. He has no choice but to divert our attention from the record and onto red herrings he can generate through false characterizations of his opponents. That's what AttackWatch.com is about. That's what the entire re-election effort is about.

    http://townhall.com/columnists/david...propaganda_arm

  11. #789
    BANNED Maximus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gov. Rick Perry: The Candidate Obama Would Fear the Most

    Quote Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
    The "culture of life" stops once the baby is out of the womb. At that point it's survival of the fittest.
    Or inside the womb...

    In September of 1975, a woman discovered that she was pregnant. She also felt she had reasons to terminate the life of the child living inside her:


    Things were very difficult for her, as she was raising two sons, six and 15 years old. Their father had walked out on them and refused to help care for the boys financially, or in any other way. The only alternative for this woman, it seemed, was to abort this unexpected baby. After all, she could barely afford to feed the children she already had.
    Between the months of September 1975 and January 1976, this woman had three therapeutic abortions in an attempt to rid herself of the unborn baby. These abortions, also known as a "salting out procedure" are performed by injecting a very large syringe into the woman's abdomen, removing a certain amount of amniotic fluid out of the womb, and then injecting three times the amount of saline back in, thus "burning" the baby out. For reasons only God knows, these abortions did not take and on April 21, 1976, two months premature, her baby was born. The child was perfect and healthy, weighing four pounds, five ounces.

    Unfortunately on March 16, 1977, the mother passed away, less than a year after her baby girl was born. After the woman's death, the infant's father and paternal grandmother took custody of the baby and her two brothers. As this baby girl grew up, her father told her about the three abortions she had undergone in her mother's womb but this little girl never believed him, as she assumed that if a baby is aborted, he or she could not possibly survive.

    The truth only came to this girl when she was eighteen years old, married, and approximately five months pregnant with her first child. This girl needed and soon obtained her mother's medical records from the hospital that had treated her. Imagine her utter shock as she read about how her mother tried to terminate her unborn child three times. As the young girl read the medical documents, the new life inside of her was stirring and kicking as if to say "Mommy please don't get any ideas."

    Today this young woman is 25 years old and is raising a family of her own. She is healthy and normal in every way, with no physical deformities of any kind.

  12. #790
    #howu Noonan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gov. Rick Perry: The Candidate Obama Would Fear the Most

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus View Post
    Capital punishment is a real tough issue for me. One morning I wake up and say that no one has the right to end anyone's life. The next day i'll hear a story about some monster committing unimaginable crimes and I think, hey that monster has forfeited his right to exist! I'm a huge flip flopper on the issue.
    See, this makes total sense to me. An issue as big as taking someone's life I think would give most people pause. That's what bothers me about Perry. He shows no second guessing about executive more than 200 people. And there's been some very good reporting that shows at least a couple of those people were more than likely innocent.

    It's just a huge red flag for me that an elected official would put so little thought into capital punishment.

  13. #791
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    Default Re: Gov. Rick Perry: The Candidate Obama Would Fear the Most

    Quote Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
    See, this makes total sense to me. An issue as big as taking someone's life I think would give most people pause. That's what bothers me about Perry. He shows no second guessing about executive more than 200 people. And there's been some very good reporting that shows at least a couple of those people were more than likely innocent.

    It's just a huge red flag for me that an elected official would put so little thought into capital punishment.
    Ok, so do you have problems with Obama unleashing drone-firestorms on terrorists' domes all the time (even though many innocents die in these types of attacks)? And if not, why not? It's still taking a life, is it not?
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    #howu Noonan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gov. Rick Perry: The Candidate Obama Would Fear the Most

    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheReg View Post
    Ok, so do you have problems with Obama unleashing drone-firestorms on terrorists' domes all the time (even though many innocents die in these types of attacks)? And if not, why not? It's still taking a life, is it not?
    I think I'm mostly in support of drone attacks. They seem to be a valuable weapon against terrorists and it limits the loss of American lives. But that is weighed against civilians dying. Then again, if you're spending time with terrorists, that's the risk you take.

    Comparing drone attacks against terrorists to capital punishment is a pretty big stretch. There's quite a bit of grey in these issues. I get the feeling you want it to be black and white.

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    Default Re: Gov. Rick Perry: The Candidate Obama Would Fear the Most

    I can understand taking the life of someone who is an apparent and immediate threat. Which is why self-defense killings and stuff are perfectly fine with me, of course. And in terms of foreign policy, instances where someone is carrying out a direct attack, etc. What constitutes a direct threat enough to kill in foreign policy is the grey area for me, naturally.

    I think if someone is in custody and a direct threat to nobody, there is no reason to kill.

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    Default Re: Gov. Rick Perry: The Candidate Obama Would Fear the Most

    Quote Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
    I think I'm mostly in support of drone attacks. They seem to be a valuable weapon against terrorists and it limits the loss of American lives. But that is weighed against civilians dying. Then again, if you're spending time with terrorists, that's the risk you take.

    Comparing drone attacks against terrorists to capital punishment is a pretty big stretch. There's quite a bit of grey in these issues. I get the feeling you want it to be black and white.
    I'm not getting it. Liberals always blast a conservative when he orders a killing that might put innocent lives at risk. This includes going into Iraq to oust Saddam as well. So now it's fine that Obama is doing the same thing? I personally think it's great that Obama is killing the terrorists and totally know there is always a risk of killing the innocent with it, but at least I don't flip flop on the issue based on who is President.

    I don't see the issue with Perry. Really don't. We have DNA to make sure about things these days. If you are saying Perry ignores DNA evidence and goes ahead and allows death anyway, then I want to see the proof of that. If Perry or any governor finds out DNA was used and it matches the defendant, I don't see what the problem is if that defendant was already tried and found guilty of murder.

    This is simply a case of if you believe someone guilty of murder in the first degree should be put to death. This stuff about Perry is a convenience to liberals to trash him because as this thread title states; Obama is afraid of Perry. He should be.

    My personal beliefs are that the death penalty should be expanded. There are extremely evil people out there and living off of YOUR tax monies who have raped and tortured innocent woman and children, but go on living with THREE great meals per day, ok bed to sleep in, excercise facilities, color TV, and also in many cases internet access. That's what I call bullshit. And oh, BTW; can get out on parole after so many years to only move up to the level of murder next time.

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    Default Re: Gov. Rick Perry: The Candidate Obama Would Fear the Most

    Quote Originally Posted by DougHeil View Post
    I'm not getting it.
    Killing terrorists or enemy combatants who aren't in our custody is self-defense as far as I'm concerned. Criminals in custody aren't a clear and present danger in any way shape or form. So i think it's an apples v oranges comparison. Not saying I'm for capital punishment or against...probably for it, but i really don't know.

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