A close look at pick 24 options

[Joe Henderson]

The King's pick could possibly be 11th and likely in the 11-15 range. That pick and the 24th pick should alone be enough to move into the top 10.

Question for all y'all. Can we trade Varejao straight up for picks? If so, that would mean that we would have like 8 million more on cap space minus whoever we drsft?

Portland, Houston and Boston have multiple picks in the draft, aside from the Cavs. Those seem to be the soft targets, but their motivation for trading a pick away would probably be to not have to rely on rookies as much and get veteran help instead (and maybe a future pick) -- so a later first rounder and an early second rounder probably wouldn't go very far. Varejao -- maybe. It doesn't seem implausible, for example that him and a future first would get No. 11 or No. 16.

If that happens, though, i would expect the Cavs to get creative with No. 24 and the second rounders, trying to parlay them into other assets, like a future pick or a developmental player.

Maybe i'm in the minority here, but i can imagine the Cavs bringing in 3 rookies next year, plus using one more pick on a stasher. Still, any more than that seems unlikely.

[Douglar]

Also, we would have to take back salary in order to trade any player, unless we're getting a TPE or something.

Something could be if the other team has cap space. If the team we trade to has cap space, then it's all good. No need to exception anything.

I also agree that it's really tough to pry a top 10 pick away from a team. The standard recipie is to send out some proven talent to a team that thinks it is going to win soon. It also helps if the destination team needs to saving money, free cap space, or if they have trouble signing free agents.

The only way that the Cavs can land a second top 10 pick in this draft is to trade down from their first pick or package Varejao to a team that craves Euros.

Toronto has enough cap space to float a Varejao deal. They like euros. They have trouble collecting free agents. Bargnani and Calderon are not getting younger. But I also don't think any anyone is trading any lottery picks until after the lottery.

Can anyone see any draft picks higher than #24 that the Cavs can get without trading Varejao? #17's the best I can see. Why would Dallas do that trade? They are going to need to fill roster spots on the cheap after their free agent binge this summer and they don't have any second rounders right now. Trading #17 for mutliple second rounders frees up another ~$1Mil of cap space and fills more roster spots.

[BankShot]

Can anyone see any draft picks higher than #24 that the Cavs can get without trading Varejao? #17's the best I can see. Why would Dallas do that trade? They are going to need to fill roster spots on the cheap after their free agent binge this summer and they don't have any second rounders right now. Trading #17 for mutliple second rounders frees up another ~$1Mil of cap space and fills more roster spots.

How about N.O. @ #10 (via Minn)? We take on the Okafer contract and give them 24, 33 and maybe a future protected #1. Pretty similiar to the BDavis trade, taking on two years of a hefty contract of a player that could be part of our rotation for a first round pick in the 8-10 range. Of course there are a few differences, a #10 pick in this draft is more valuable than a #8 in 2011 and LA got talent back in Mo Williams, NO would be getting talent via draft picks...but maybe there is a structure of a deal there that could be worked out.

[ajz20]

In terms of trade value, what is realistic if we package 24,33, Kings Pick, Take on Salary. Is that good enough to move up to take Terrence Ross?
Also, I have Ross as the most desirable realistic prospect to move up for. What is everyone's number 1 realistic trade up option?
I think pick 14-20 is a realistic place to move. Usually the 33rd or 34th pick have no value, but in this draft, I really do see a few teams who would like to target some guys there, therefore giving it slightly more value then usual. What if we included the Miami/Lakers pick and the Kings pick plus 33? Where does that allow us to move up?
Finally, would you rather hold on to future first rounders and just take the BPA at 24 since the draft is deeper then usual?

[Douglar]

How about N.O. @ #10 (via Minn)? We take on the Okafer contract and give them 24, 33 and maybe a future protected #1. Pretty similiar to the BDavis trade, taking on two years of a hefty contract of a player that could be part of our rotation for a first round pick in the 8-10 range. Of course there are a few differences, a #10 pick in this draft is more valuable than a #8 in 2011 and LA got talent back in Mo Williams, NO would be getting talent via draft picks...but maybe there is a structure of a deal there that could be worked out.

The Clippers are notorious for cheap salaries, the owner hated the player, they were entering win now mode and wanted cap space for last summer. Replacing Mo for Davis addressed all those issues.

I don't see the NO owner going cheap in the first year that he takes over, hating Okafor, thinking he's in win now mode, or needing cap space.

So while the trade looks similar on the surface, the underlying motivations just are not there.

[Douglar]

Is that good enough to move up to take Terrence Ross?

I don't think the question should be "Can the Cavs get player X"? Who knows this early? Maybe Terrence Ross falls to #24 because they find rectal warts on his ACL in his combine physical.

I think the question here should be "What deal can the Cavs give to get a better pick"?

The only things I see are:

1) trading 24 & 34 to get #17 and bad salary from Dallas (Why? Dallas wants more cap space and cheaper roster fills for next summer )
2) trading Varejao and swapping second rounders to get #11 from Portland (Why? Portland wants to retool fast and doesn't need any more draft picks)
3) hoping Toronto coughs up #8 for Varejao and #24 (Why? Toronto needs to scrap everything or start winning soon. That and they luuuuuv them some Euros)

[Zone]

Toronto has enough cap space to float a Varejao deal. They like euros. They have trouble collecting free agents. Bargnani and Calderon are not getting younger. But I also don't think any anyone is trading any lottery picks until after the lottery.

If the slots stay the same after the lottery, I think Toronto might be the highest we could get with 24 and Varejao. Possibly have to include one or both of our #2's. In that range, we'd be looking at Lamb, PJ3, etc. Does anyone think those types of guys are worth it?

Can anyone see any draft picks higher than #24 that the Cavs can get without trading Varejao? #17's the best I can see. Why would Dallas do that trade? They are going to need to fill roster spots on the cheap after their free agent binge this summer and they don't have any second rounders right now. Trading #17 for mutliple second rounders frees up another ~$1Mil of cap space and fills more roster spots.

But Dallas couldn't trade their 1st this year without having another one in this draft or a guaranteed (unprotected) #1 next year. Their #1 in 2013 is still traded under the rules, since there is a chance it could be conveyed to LAL.

Dallas still could realize a little bit of savings on their upcoming cap space by dropping from 17 to 24. The difference in #17 last year (Shumpert) and 24 (Reggie Jackson) was about $410k. Also, the 2nd rounders wouldn't impact their cap space to sign FA's, since cap holds are typically held at the rookie minimum ... which is the hold for a 2nd round pick.

My vote to move up would be the Suns. Maybe do 13 for 24 and take back the Josh Childress contract?

[mcfly]

Why would Toronto have any interest in Varejao? With Valanciunas coming over, plus Bargnani, Davis, and Amir on the roster, it would not be a smart move.

[Douglar]

Why would Toronto have any interest in Varejao? With Valanciunas coming over, plus Bargnani, Davis, and Amir on the roster, it would not be a smart move.

Maybe I'm reaching, but Bargnani and Amir seem to be allergic to the painted area on the floor and play more like combo forwards, even though they are tall. Varejao would fit very well with those guys. It's not like you can expect Valanciunas to be the only front court defender.

However they also need wing players in the worst sort of way, so they might cravy Perry Jones more than another Euro. BUt how different is Perr Jones from Amir Johnson?

It's a wierd draft because the talent between pick 8 and pick 18 all seem pretty level.

[supergoat52]

If the slots stay the same after the lottery, I think Toronto might be the highest we could get with 24 and Varejao. Possibly have to include one or both of our #2's. In that range, we'd be looking at Lamb, PJ3, etc. Does anyone think those types of guys are worth it?



But Dallas couldn't trade their 1st this year without having another one in this draft or a guaranteed (unprotected) #1 next year. Their #1 in 2013 is still traded under the rules, since there is a chance it could be conveyed to LAL.

Dallas still could realize a little bit of savings on their upcoming cap space by dropping from 17 to 24. The difference in #17 last year (Shumpert) and 24 (Reggie Jackson) was about $410k. Also, the 2nd rounders wouldn't impact their cap space to sign FA's, since cap holds are typically held at the rookie minimum ... which is the hold for a 2nd round pick.

My vote to move up would be the Suns. Maybe do 13 for 24 and take back the Josh Childress contract?

Even if the Stepien rule would prevent Dallas from trading the pick as you point out, they would still be able to skirt the rule by drafting for the other team and trading the player immediately after drafting him.

[Joe Henderson]

Here's a recent example of draft-day wheeling and dealing that netted some amazing pieces. Given the wealth of assets (including cap space) the Cavs have right now, this is some sort of a blueprint i would expect Grant to at least look at:

2006 draft

Portland acquired the draft rights to 2nd pick LaMarcus Aldridge a 2007 second-round draft pick from Chicago in exchange for the draft rights to 4th pick Tyrus Thomas and Viktor Khryapa.

Portland acquired the draft rights to 6th pick Brandon Roy from Minnesota in exchange for the draft rights to 7th pick Randy Foye. Previously, Portland acquired the draft rights to 7th pick Randy Foye, Raef LaFrentz and Dan Dickau from Boston in exchange for Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff and a 2008 second-round draft pick.

Portland acquired the draft rights to 27th pick Sergio Rodríguez from Phoenix in exchange for cash considerations.

[mds]

Not to be pedantic, but Varejao is from Brazil. Oh, and while we're at it Ginobili is from Argentina. Neither is european.

[Douglar]

Not to be pedantic, but Varejao is from Brazil. Oh, and while we're at it Ginobili is from Argentina. Neither is european.

By "Euros" I meant that they played a siginificant amount european basketball. It's the same reason Toronto liked Anthony Partker, even though he's an American citizen, he played European basketball.

[mds]

By "Euros" I meant that they played a siginificant amount european basketball. It's the same reason Toronto liked Anthony Partker, even though he's an American citizen, he played European basketball.

Fair enough…I think its more accurate just to call it International Basketball, but as I said, I was being pedantic, haha…to carry on the pedantry, AP played for Tel Aviv, which is not in Europe. ;-)

[Zone]

Even if the Stepien rule would prevent Dallas from trading the pick as you point out, they would still be able to skirt the rule by drafting for the other team and trading the player immediately after drafting him.

Yep, that's the way around it. Good observation and add-on