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  1. #16
    The One Who Knocks Biw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Holmgren on the Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by GreasySpread36 View Post
    I think this team has to get better in the win-loss department this year. At some point improvement must be reflected in the standings. Simply being competitive without winning isn't much of a feat.

    With three full off-seasons under their belt, it's time to see a jump in the tangible areas- meaning, wins and losses. I think we need to see more wins, period, and more wins within the division.

    This team can't keep going 4-12 or 5-11 while simultaneously bragging about how much better it is.
    I get that we need to start winning some games. I was factoring in the toughness of the schedule when I said the above. Realistically I see us winning six or seven games, but we could easily wind up winning only four or five. That's why I said I wasnt too concerned with wins this year(as long as we're competitive).

    And as much as I like Weeden, the truth is he's still unproven. I know Cinci turned it around after drafting Dalton, but they also got Green for him to throw to.

    Richardson should help our offense immensely though.
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  2. #17
    Bania'd Soda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Holmgren on the Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by GreasySpread36 View Post
    I think this team has to get better in the win-loss department this year. At some point improvement must be reflected in the standings. Simply being competitive without winning isn't much of a feat.

    With three full off-seasons under their belt, it's time to see a jump in the tangible areas- meaning, wins and losses. I think we need to see more wins, period, and more wins within the division.

    This team can't keep going 4-12 or 5-11 while simultaneously bragging about how much better it is.
    There are so many more "tangible" areas that can be evaluated, not just wins and losses. I don't disagree that we should be seeing more wins and that improvement ultimately should mean more wins, but it'd be ignorant to not factor in the rest of the tangible statistics that go into a football player/team. By just talking wins and losses is being lazy.

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  4. #18
    #howu Noonan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Holmgren on the Radio

    FYI

















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  6. #19
    Team Player GreasySpread36's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Holmgren on the Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by Rap Soda View Post
    By just talking wins and losses is being lazy.
    See, I don't agree with that. Not in year three. Once you get to this stage improvement has to be reflected in the win-loss record. That's ultimately how every regime is judged- not by your drafts, not by the stability of your organization but by the record- because the former are meaningless without improvement in the latter. And the guys running the team know this full well.

    I just don't see how it's acceptable for this team to go 4-12 or 5-11 in year three of a rebuild, regardless of the circumstances. To me that's a regime that simply isn't getting the job done in terms of acquiring talent. Three full offseasons should be enough to at least bring about modest improvement. I'm not talking about going 12-4 and being a Super Bowl contender. I'm talking about 7-8 wins with a couple in the division.

    I really don't think that's too much to expect.

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  8. #20
    Bania'd Soda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Holmgren on the Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by GreasySpread36 View Post
    See, I don't agree with that. Not in year three. Once you get to this stage improvement has to be reflected in the win-loss record. That's ultimately how every regime is judged- not by your drafts, not by the stability of your organization but by the record- because the former are meaningless without improvement in the latter. And the guys running the team know this full well.

    I just don't see how it's acceptable for this team to go 4-12 or 5-11 in year three of a rebuild, regardless of the circumstances. To me that's a regime that simply isn't getting the job done in terms of acquiring talent. Three full offseasons should be enough to at least bring about modest improvement. I'm not talking about going 12-4 and being a Super Bowl contender. I'm talking about 7-8 wins with a couple in the division.

    I really don't think that's too much to expect.
    Nor do I.

    Your questions and concerns can be answered, though, if you yourself look at the statistics. What do you do if the record says something different than your eyes? I know I do analyses of the stats that went into the season. Either way, I try to understand what happened before only pointing to the record. Pointing to only the win-loss record is just plain lazy.

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  9. #21
    Team Player GreasySpread36's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Holmgren on the Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by Rap Soda View Post
    Nor do I.

    Your questions and concerns can be answered, though, if you yourself look at the statistics. What do you do if the record says something different than your eyes? I know I do analyses of the stats that went into the season. Either way, I try to understand what happened before only pointing to the record. Pointing to only the win-loss record is just plain lazy.
    If this team goes 4-12 I'm pretty sure my eyes are going to tell me it's a bad team. There's no such thing as a competitive 4-12 team. If you lose two-thirds of your games you're just bad, plain and simple.

  10. #22
    Best in the World The Voice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Holmgren on the Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by GreasySpread36 View Post
    If this team goes 4-12 I'm pretty sure my eyes are going to tell me it's a bad team. There's no such thing as a competitive 4-12 team. If you lose two-thirds of your games you're just bad, plain and simple.
    So you're going to tell me the Colts would have played just as bad with a healthy Peyton Manning at QB last year?
    OU... OH YEAH!!!!

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  11. #23
    Team Player GreasySpread36's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Holmgren on the Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by The Optomist View Post
    So you're going to tell me the Colts would have played just as bad with a healthy Peyton Manning at QB last year?
    I don't really understand what you're asking, tbh.

  12. #24
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    Default Re: Mike Holmgren on the Radio

    I hate moral victories and all that sentimental bullshit but I feel like this team is going to be 2-14 - 4-12 range based on the brutal schedule. We had a much easier road last year and went 4-12. We addressed some major holes and added some great pieces this past draft.

    I think the difference will be in us losing games 17-24 as opposed to 3-21. It's not what anyone wants to hear but I don't think we're going to be horribly abysmal on offense and have to rely solely on Phil. I think the D should be slightly better with our young core improving. I feel like the offense should at least be competitive now with Weeden's arm and Richardson back there. I think we're definitely going to be more fun to watch and compete in more games which as a Browns fan at this point you can't ask for more.
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  14. #25
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    Default Re: Mike Holmgren on the Radio

    I have a feeling our Defense will regress this year. I think we improved the talent on Defense, but we also played some pretty putrid offensive teams. The best offensive team we played was the Houston Texans and they scored 30 points on us easily. The Jaguars, Rams, Seahawks, 49ers, Colts and Raiders (with an injured Campbell) were just as bad, if not worse offensively than the Browns. Plus while the Bengals, Steelers & Ravens have adequate offenses, they win mainly through Defense.

    This year we are playing some of the top offensive teams in the league with the Chargers, Giants, Eagles and Broncos (with Manning) plus improved offenses such as the Redskins (with RGIII), and Colts (with Luck).

    Offensively, we will progress, but it will be difficult to match the defensive success that we had last year.

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  16. #26
    Bania'd Soda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Holmgren on the Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by DaNewCavs View Post
    I have a feeling our Defense will regress this year. I think we improved the talent on Defense, but we also played some pretty putrid offensive teams. The best offensive team we played was the Houston Texans and they scored 30 points on us easily. The Jaguars, Rams, Seahawks, 49ers, Colts and Raiders (with an injured Campbell) were just as bad, if not worse offensively than the Browns. Plus while the Bengals, Steelers & Ravens have adequate offenses, they win mainly through Defense.

    This year we are playing some of the top offensive teams in the league with the Chargers, Giants, Eagles and Broncos (with Manning) plus improved offenses such as the Redskins (with RGIII), and Colts (with Luck).

    Offensively, we will progress, but it will be difficult to match the defensive success that we had last year.
    Well, I'm not sure I totally agree, but I do see what you mean. What happened last season was very impressive, especially since the Browns had one of the worst defenses against the rush in the NFL. I do think the pass defense will be tough to match, but there is just no way I see the defense against the rush being worse, barring injury. The line got depth and got rid of Jayme Mitchell and the LB core got some depth as well as youth. To tell you the truth, I don't see a huge playmaking defense this year, but I do see the team maintaining a solid defense overall. Lets just hope that Sheldon Brown and Dimitri Patterson (and Buster Skrine) are up for the challenge again.

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  17. #27
    Formerly known as Talm MalTalm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Holmgren on the Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by DaNewCavs View Post
    I have a feeling our Defense will regress this year. I think we improved the talent on Defense, but we also played some pretty putrid offensive teams. The best offensive team we played was the Houston Texans and they scored 30 points on us easily. The Jaguars, Rams, Seahawks, 49ers, Colts and Raiders (with an injured Campbell) were just as bad, if not worse offensively than the Browns. Plus while the Bengals, Steelers & Ravens have adequate offenses, they win mainly through Defense.

    This year we are playing some of the top offensive teams in the league with the Chargers, Giants, Eagles and Broncos (with Manning) plus improved offenses such as the Redskins (with RGIII), and Colts (with Luck).

    Offensively, we will progress, but it will be difficult to match the defensive success that we had last year.
    If you mean our defensive statistics will sag compared to last year, I agree. Our defense will be improved though. Both Sheard and Taylor made some big rookie mistakes last season, but with a full season of experience and the benefit of a complete training camp, they should begin filling their roles very nicely. Haden should be entering his prime this season, and a lot of our DBs are relatively young; we should see growth out of that unit as a whole.

    I tend to agree we will give up more yards per possession this season. But we should also be able to cause more turnovers and do a much better job of keeping opposing offenses off the field with an improved running game and (hopefully) a more efficient offense.

    I know I'm in the board minority on this issue, but the Browns need to translate improvements into wins this season. The culmination of improvement is reflected in the win/loss column, and we're playing the same teams everyone else in our division plays. If we only manage 4 or 5 wins, this season will be a disaster. I think 7-8 is reasonable to expect from this franchise.
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  19. #28
    #howu Noonan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Holmgren on the Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by Talm View Post
    I tend to agree we will give up more yards per possession this season. But we should also be able to cause more turnovers and do a much better job of keeping opposing offenses off the field with an improved running game and (hopefully) a more efficient offense.
    This is the key. The Browns gave up 4.4 yards per rush. Steelers, by comparison, gave up 4.0. But the big difference is the Browns faced about 130 more rushing attempts. If the Browns can move the chains, then the Browns run D could make a huge jump. Especially when you consider the depth added in the draft and the improvement of Sheard and Taylor in year two.

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