Cavs defeat Warriors 4-3 in 2016 NBA Finals

BimboColesHair said:

The Cavs currently have the 2nd best ORtg in post merger NBA playoff history...2nd to the fucking prime Showtime Lakers by 0.7...

Yet all people want to talk about is how the Cavs are going to stop GS...

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b-b-but they didn't even have to go through the Rockets and Blazers!!!

Opponents matter!!!

ice cream man said:

1. JR cannot stop Klay. No way. He couldn't stop Derozan. Klay is more than a stand still 3pt shooter.

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DeRozan is in no way comparable to Klay Thompson.

DeRozan is one of the better isolation scorers in the NBA, Klay Thompson isn't close. He's scoring the vast majority of his points from behind the three point line.

Not sure how you could think otherwise?

ice cream man said:

2. Draymond will not be guarding LeBron unless he gets switched. If they do end up sticking him on LeBron, great - lets get Draymond in foul trouble. Draymond will likely be on Love, in which case I'd still want Love to go at him and get him in foul trouble. Regardless, we HAVE to involve Love more than we did against Toronto. Iggy/Barnes will be guarding LeBron. When Iggy is on LeBron, LeBron should be in the post, not the perimeter. Otherwise let Irving/Love run the show.

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I'm not concerned with who Draymond is guarding; I'm talking about LeBron guarding Draymond.

As far as getting Draymond in foul trouble; good luck with that.

ice cream man said:

3. I would start Fry and Love together. We can't stop them, but we can control how efficient our offense is. This lineup would render Bogut useless.

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There's no reason to do this. Tristan Thompson outrebounds, outhustles, and outpaces Bogut/Ezeli. We'd be giving up our rebounding advantage by changing our lineup and immediately going for spacing.

We'll likely need those extra possessions.

If we can rebound at a similar rate as the Thunder (which we have historically), and given our offensive efficiency; we should win on that alone.

ice cream man said:

4. Talking about matchups in pretty useless as well in my opinion. OKC switched everything which is the way to go, even if we end up with Love on Curry multiple times. They will have to work harder to get open shots this way. One screen or back-cut if we don't switch. If we switch, multiple drive and kicks will be needed.

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Actually switching "everything" is what lost them the series.

Curry was lights out against Adams and Kerr outcoached Donovan over the last two games targeting Adams and Kanter with Steph off screens. It worked for a few games, but the Thunder never adjusted.

ice cream man said:

5. You forgot one important matchup: the benches. Livingston and Barbosa will destroy us. Always have.

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I doubt Livingston and Barbosa will cost us a single game. Not sure how you come to the conclusion they'll "destroy" us.

ice cream man said:

I think we get destroyed in Game 1.

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Based on what?

ice cream man said:

Then we gotta take Game 2. I think the only way the Cavs win this series is if they go up 3-1 like the Thunder did. I predict Warriors will win the series. I hope I'm wrong.

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We need to be up 3-1 to win the series?

Give me a break.

@ice cream man ,

@gourimoko done melted you, bro.

Walter White said:

I don't think that has been confirmed anywhere. Like I said before, I wouldn't give him a ring. We don't get rings if they win do we? If it was a team we weren't facing, maybe.

But on the other hand, it might be kind of funny to piss off GS players with Andy walking around with a ring from the team that just beat you.

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He's not w GS after this season...

Gus Zing said:

No doubt the media will be all about Steph's knee instead of the Cavs winning it.

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I agree with you here, I also think Draymond Green will end up getting suspended for a game leading into the same media narrative that GS looses it rather than Cleveland wins it. If Cleveland wins, they (the media and GS fans) will find every excuse imaginable to put an asterisk on it.

AND, I WILL NOT GIVE A DAMM!

Cleveland will have exercised its demons and hoist a trophy for all to relish!

God-damn, I wish we were playing the Thunder. If we lose this series, people (including me) will say, "If we had only played the Thunder, and gotten home-court." Especially if we play well, but not quite well-enough...

On defense:

The more I think about our defense, I wonder if we should go against the grain a little bit and try to bait Curry and Klay into beating us with isolation ball. Because once you double or let them get to the rim, they can start swinging it around the perimeter and get good shots. Of course we never want Klay or Curry to have open shots, but I'd rather them try to shoot jumpers over a perceived mismatch over them getting to the rim or moving the ball around.

Of course, I understand the idea of shutting down Curry and Klay and making everyone else beat you. But their role players always seem to be big for them. Well first of all, I guess you can't shut down Curry or Klay anyway, so why put so much effort into it? You have to make them work, on both ends of the floor, but I think I could live with contested jumpers over conceding wide open dunks/threes from role players. Even though we know Steph and Klay will make tough shots, we just can't let everyone else beat us.

Curry looks to be completely himself again, but even then like I said before, if I had to pick one guy to really key in on, it has to be Klay. Make Curry expend more energy having to score. All eyes are on Curry, put the pressure on him and not let Klay bail him out. Make someone other than Klay step up to be the 2nd option.

And making shots is one of the best ways to play defense against the Warriors. Not letting them get out and run off of long misses and dumb shots makes them have to take it out of the basket and see a set defense. Everytime they went on a run, it's because OKC forced a horrible shot early in the shot clock or turned it over.

On offense:

As much as we know GS will try to exploit Kyrie and Love in the pick and roll, we have to exploit Curry and make him a liability on defense. Klay will probably take Kyrie and Curry will probably take JR. Either have JR constantly running off screens or create switches where Curry has to guard Kyrie. Kyrie has to be in attack mode either way because wearing Klay down on defense is important too. Klay would rather live with Kyrie shooting jumpers because Klay has the size to contest. Kyrie needs to use his quickness and take him to the hoop every time. I think we need to put Bogut in pick and rolls as much as possible too, no way he is quick enough to stop LeBron or Kyrie from turning the corner.

KilgoreTrout said:

God-damn, I wish we were playing the Thunder. If we lose this series, people (including me) will say, "If we had only played the Thunder, and gotten home-court." Especially if we play well, but not quite well-enough...

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If they can't beat any team in a 7 game series, they don't deserve a championship. I'm tired of this crap of being only the 2nd best after building up a team and one other team always being a hair better. If they don't win this series, I'm considering not following the Cavs until the playoffs next year.

I think we have a solid shot in this series, although it won't be easy. But have to object to comparing Klay Thompson to Kyle Korver. In Thompson you're talking about an athletic guy in the prime of his career (26 years old) who averaged 22 points on 17 shots per game during the season, and a remarkable 26 points on 20 shots per game in the postseason (including averaging 45% on ten 3PA per game). Korver is a broken down old (35 years old) dude coming back from injury who averaged 9 points on 7 shots per game during the regular season. Korver still has his shooting touch but there is just no comparison between the two as an overall offensive player.

KilgoreTrout said:

God-damn, I wish we were playing the Thunder. If we lose this series, people (including me) will say, "If we had only played the Thunder, and gotten home-court." Especially if we play well, but not quite well-enough...

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You'll have 100 what-ifs regardless of the outcome.

I really think the fans here that are being "pessimistic" or down on the Cavs are putting way too much emphasis on the regular season.

Let's say you're someone who hadn't seen a single minute of the regular season and had no prior knowledge of it, and only started closely following the NBA at the start of the playoffs. Who would you say the favorites to win it all are? Which one of these two teams is "scarier"? Looking at the two rosters and matching them up against one another, which would you say is more formidable?

Please trash whatever media noise you hear or any statistical model that uses the "regular season" as a barometer of anything. I'm feeling very good about the Cavs chances in this series, and I'm fully expecting them to shock everyone that's incapable of looking at what's right in front of them.

BimboColesHair said:

Too add to the godfathers post:

DRtg rank of the Cavs opponents in the regular season:

Detroit: 12th
Atlanta: 2nd
Toronto: 11th

DRtg rank of the Warriors opponents in the regular season:

Houston: 21st
Portland: 20th
Oklahoma City: 13th

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Good work on all this stuff.

I am still concerned because GS can beat you if all your stats look better than theirs, and I am not convinced they are going to keep playing as poorly as they have been. If anyone can beat them, it is the Cavs. I just hope the Cavs step on their necks.

Wonder if Iggy will start again like he did last night (and in last year's Finals eventually) or if Kerr will go back to Barnes.

I'm guessing he sticks with Iggy.

shoes22 said:

I really think the fans here that are being "pessimistic" or down on the Cavs are putting way too much emphasis on the regular season.

Let's say you're someone who hadn't seen a single minute of the regular season and had no prior knowledge of it, and only started closely following the NBA at the start of the playoffs. Who would you say the favorites to win it all are? Which one of these two teams is "scarier"? Looking at the two rosters and matching them up against one another, which would you say is more formidable?

Please trash whatever media noise you hear or any statistical model that uses the "regular season" as a barometer of anything. I'm feeling very good about the Cavs chances in this series, and I'm fully expecting them to shock everyone that's incapable of looking at what's right in front of them.

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This, exactly. A LeBron James led team.. especially one with a recovering Kyrie, mid-season coaching change, and acquiring Frye mid-season... isn't going to be at full capacity until the end of the season. It's partially by design and partially circumstance driven.

Also, GS plays a style that, considering the absurd shooting abilities of Klay and Curry, will destroy most NBA teams. This is both because of a talent disparity and because they are really difficult to scheme for one game at a time. They have a style that is unorthodox and unlike anyone else.

When teams - even Houston at times - are able to scheme and prepare for them, they aren't THAT much better than the top echelon of the league. OKC should have/could have had them... San Antonio in an alternate universe may very well have beat them..

Like shoes said, if you just started watching in the playoffs and ignored the VERY meaningless regular season, I think at WORST the conclusion you come to is this series is a total toss up. I truly think in that scenario one might favor the Cavs. The Cavs have been every bit as dominant in the playoffs as they were setting their stupid record. What really is more impressive??

I'm glad we have these guys. Nothing is guaranteed and it is a steep hill to climb.. but I promise you it's no less steep (and I contend steeper) for our opponent. This Cavs team isn't good, it's a GREAT team. It has it's flaws as any NBA team does. But what we do well we do at an elite, nearly historic level. They aren't the only ones that can make that statement.

Gonna be a fun, stressful series. Cavs in 6.

The Wizard of Moz said:

He was voted back to back DPOY awards, had people calling him the most well rounded basketball player in the league (a league LeBron plays in)

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You've described Kawhi Leonard.