2019 NBA Draft

Anyone who doesn't think Barrett is the lock at #1 for any team in the lottery is clearly missing the boat...

Barrett is the undisputed #1 and as long as he stays healthy, I'll take bets from any of you who think someone else will be.

Next, I'm intrigued by Little. He has a good shooting stroke and a good frame already, looks like he could be a very strong/well built wing in today's league.

Gun to my head, if I'm the Cavs my top 10 prospects as of today would be:

1.) Barrett

2A.) Zion
2.B) Reddish
4.) Little

5.) Bol
6.) Doumbouya

7.) Naz Reid
8.) Langford
9.) Gafford
10.) Garland/Grimes

Nathan S said:

I personally don't think Barrett is a markedly better player than Little/Reddish/Bol. I might've had Barrett a touch above Reddish going into the season, but Reddish has put up better numbers so far, so that's a wash for me at this point. Little's probably a better defender than either of them, and he's shown more on offense than I expected so far. Bol will always be a divisive prospect, but I like the "unicorn potential" he has with his combination of size and skill. I need to watch him more, but I can imagine him ending up anywhere from Tier 1 to Tier 3 on my board pretty easily.

Click to expand...

When looking at how you would grade out the players, I guess it depends on what you consider markedly.

To me, in a 100+ grading system, a guy at 98+ vs a guy at 94/95 is markedly better. Each point beyond that blind top 10 grade or so is significant.

Cam is a 94/95 ish guy, Little 93/94, Bol 93/94.

Even when comparing Barrett to Cam, he just has no weaknesses. What are you concerned about at the next level with RJ? Anything? And is it a serious concern or the nitpick variety? His floor is what sets him apart IMO. Cam probably has 2-3 more serious concerns (Competitiveness / attitude, inconsistencies against top competition, loose handle).

There's lots of 93-95 players year to year, there's not many 98's and above. 98 and above is the Ayton, Luka, Simmons, Towns, Wiggins, Embiid, Davis, etc. Again, I don't think Barrett is necessary on the level of these upper tier guys (Davis, etc), that was why I made the 2A comment. Few guys exceed true 97 ratings as prospects......most that do typically edge in to the 99/100/101 range.....Barrett seems like the rare case where he has really, really good but not elite measurables and then everything else skill-wise, is great. I like Luka better but that's similar to where he got stuck as a prospect in a 100 grading system. In that range of better than almost everyone else you would evaluate but lacking that elite body / athleticism of the Ayton's, Davis', etc. of the world to edge in to the ceiling of that rating system.

Guys play above and below their ratings obviously, it's not perfect but Barrett would be taken #1 in many NBA drafts. Maybe not 50% but I don't think guys like Cam, Little or Bol go #1 overall in any drafts. Maybe you could argue Bol, because his frame is insane but Cam and Little, no chance. That's why I just don't think they are in Barrett's tier.

CavsFan07 said:

Anyone who doesn't think Barrett is the lock at #1 for any team in the lottery is clearly missing the boat...

Barrett is the undisputed #1 and as long as he stays healthy, I'll take bets from any of you who think someone else will be.

Next, I'm intrigued by Little. He has a good shooting stroke and a good frame already, looks like he could be a very strong/well built wing in today's league.

Gun to my head, if I'm the Cavs my top 10 prospects as of today would be:

1.) Barrett

2A.) Zion
2.B) Reddish
4.) Little

5.) Bol
6.) Doumbouya

7.) Naz Reid
8.) Langford
9.) Gafford
10.) Garland/Grimes

Click to expand...

Let's make a bet.

I think Barrett is overrated and a flawed player. You know who he reminds me of if we are doing this weird Cavaliers comparison contest? he reminds me of Rodney Hood if he had Clarkon's mindset.

He is a me first type of player that gets down on himself when he struggles and can't get his. His impact so far looks to be very reliant on his scoring, and not much impact from everywhere else on the court.

I'm sorry, but I can't see how he provides better value offensively and defensively than Zion certainly, and EVEN Reddish??? While he is considered a good slasher (this is most of his game), he can't create any separation on his drives. He doesn't create defensive rotations, and it seems like the end result is always a shot attempt, and a lot of times it is heavily contested...he is predictable. He forces a lot.

That's not what 'm looking for as our saviour. Give me the energetic wrecking ball that plays the right way. He has a chance to change the culture of this team all by himself. How he handles himself on the court is contagious.

Sir'Dom Pointer said:

I think Barrett is overrated and a flawed player. You know who he reminds me of if we are doing this weird Cavaliers comparison contest? he reminds me of Rodney Hood if he had Clarkon's mindset.

Click to expand...

Late night last night?

Barrett is 28/5/4 on 49/38 splits through 2 college games.

If you score 28 a game and can still scratch out 4-5 assists, that is hall a fame level scoring / creating. That's Jordan, Wilt, LeBron, Harden, Oscar, Durant, etc.

I think this is LeBron fatigue for us (assuming scoring and assisting in combination isn't hard) but guys who can score 25-30 points a game in college typically have shit assist rates (for obvious reasons), Hood included (shit assist rate.....he's incapable of scoring at Barrett's level). The fact that Barrett manages to get 4 at this point, is nothing but a positive for his NBA prospects.

I'mWithDan said:

Late night last night?

Barrett is 28/5/4 on 49/38 splits through 2 college games.

If you score 28 a game and can still scratch out 4-5 assists, that is hall a fame level scoring / creating. That's Jordan, Wilt, LeBron, Harden, Oscar, Durant, etc.

I think this is LeBron fatigue for us (assuming scoring and assisting in combination isn't hard) but guys who can score 25-30 points a game in college typically have shit assist rates (for obvious reasons), Hood included (shit assist rate.....he's incapable of scoring at Barrett's level). The fact that Barrett manages to get 4 at this point, is nothing but a positive for his NBA prospects.

Click to expand...

Comparing college stat lines against inferior competitions like it matters in the NBA.

This is not LEebron fatigue. I know how an overrated prospect looks like and that;s RJ Barrett.

semi off-topic, his advanced stats got much worse. Zion Williamson is on a different level.

What do you like so much about Barrett? what puts him head and shoulders above NBA competition?

His slashing ability?

He has a weak first step, mechanical and streaky 3pt shot, weak pull up game...I mean what's that great about him? even his slashing only gets himself buckets...has low gravity as a slasher compared to other top slashers in the league.

I'mWithDan said:

When looking at how you would grade out the players, I guess it depends on what you consider markedly.

To me, in a 100+ grading system, a guy at 98+ vs a guy at 94/95 is markedly better. Each point beyond that blind top 10 grade or so is significant.

Cam is a 94/95 ish guy, Little 93/94, Bol 93/94.

Even when comparing Barrett to Cam, he just has no weaknesses. What are you concerned about at the next level with RJ? Anything? And is it a serious concern or the nitpick variety? His floor is what sets him apart IMO. Cam probably has 2-3 more serious concerns (Competitiveness / attitude, inconsistencies against top competition, loose handle).

There's lots of 93-95 players year to year, there's not many 98's and above. 98 and above is the Ayton, Luka, Simmons, Towns, Wiggins, Embiid, Davis, etc. Again, I don't think Barrett is necessary on the level of these upper tier guys (Davis, etc), that was why I made the 2A comment. Few guys exceed true 97 ratings as prospects......most that do typically edge in to the 99/100/101 range.....Barrett seems like the rare case where he has really, really good but not elite measurables and then everything else skill-wise, is great. I like Luka better but that's similar to where he got stuck as a prospect in a 100 grading system. In that range of better than almost everyone else you would evaluate but lacking that elite body / athleticism of the Ayton's, Davis', etc. of the world to edge in to the ceiling of that rating system.

Guys play above and below their ratings obviously, it's not perfect but Barrett would be taken #1 in many NBA drafts. Maybe not 50% but I don't think guys like Cam, Little or Bol go #1 overall in any drafts. Maybe you could argue Bol, because his frame is insane but Cam and Little, no chance. That's why I just don't think they are in Barrett's tier.

Click to expand...

Every prospect has weaknesses, and I think you're glossing over Barrett's.

First and foremost, his team has been scoring at will through 2 games, but Barrett has struggled so far to create efficiently, especially in the first half yesterday. What will happen to his efficiency when the going gets tough?

Secondly, there's the whole defensive side of the court...he's never been a guy who puts up big steal/block totals, and he hasn't stood out on that end in either of the first two games. History tells us to be wary of the argument that, just because he has good physical tools, he'll be able to flip the switch when it matters and transform into a great defender at the next level. It's always good to look at high school scouting reports with a bit of skepticism, and this is one area where my skepticism will quickly grow if he doesn't start to play better soon.

It's too bad we have to wait until mid-January to actually see these guys play anyone

I'm really not interested in how these guys do against Army and Eastern Michigan

Nathan S said:

Every prospect has weaknesses, and I think you're glossing over Barrett's.

First and foremost, his team has been scoring at will through 2 games, but Barrett has struggled so far to create efficiently, especially in the first half yesterday. What will happen to his efficiency when the going gets tough?

Secondly, there's the whole defensive side of the court...he's never been a guy who puts up big steal/block totals, and he hasn't stood out on that end in either of the first two games. History tells us to be wary of the argument that, just because he has good physical tools, he'll be able to flip the switch when it matters and transform into a great defender at the next level. It's always good to look at high school scouting reports with a bit of skepticism, and this is one area where my skepticism will quickly grow if he doesn't start to play better soon.

Click to expand...

He can only defend in Isolation. He can't defend the PnR, gets blown by at times, he is clueless off the ball, doesn't close well on shooters, has weak post defense...I mean, I want my 6'8 1st overall pick to at least be a good perimeter defender.

Should make a separate thread just for Zion vs Barrett debates lol. Everyone has their favorite players, but saying a guy is "undisputed #1" right now with this class is just an attempt at firing off hot takes that everyone knows isn't a realistic mindset in November. It's a week into the season lol.

Anyway, I've seen people unsure on Zion's passing ability. Definitely don't think he's near Simmons level on that front, but I think he does enough to still have a shot as a primary creator. That's really the main theme with all of the Duke guys for me... seeing whether they can all handle a primary creation role. I'm comfortable saying they can all at least handle being a #2 half-court creator.

Sir'Dom Pointer said:

He can only defend in Isolation. He can't defend the PnR, gets blown by at times, he is clueless off the ball, doesn't close well on shooters, has weak post defense...I mean, I want my 6'8 1st overall pick to at least be a good perimeter defender.

Click to expand...

This is further than I'm willing to go...he never had a reputation as a bad/limited defender in high school, but now after a couple bad performances in meaningless blowout games we're already digging his grave? All I'm saying is it's a question mark, whereas Little (and to a slightly lesser extent Cam) look as good as advertised on that end.

Nathan S said:

This is further than I'm willing to go...he never had a reputation as a bad/limited defender in high school, but now after a couple bad performances in meaningless blowout games we're already digging his grave? All I'm saying is it's a question mark, whereas Little (and to a slightly lesser extent Cam) look as good as advertised on that end.

Click to expand...

Totally fair....

I'm probably exaggerating as it's only been two games, but I just don't see what's so great about him when you put the rate stats a side.

Since I can't edit I meant *raw stats. Sorry.

Sir'Dom Pointer said:

What do you like so much about Barrett? what puts him head and shoulders above NBA competition?

His slashing ability?

He has a weak first step, mechanical and streaky 3pt shot, weak pull up game...I mean what's that great about him? even his slashing only gets himself buckets...has low gravity as a slasher compared to other top slashers in the league.

Click to expand...

I like that he has an incredibly high floor and an advanced set of NBA moves at 18. Plug him in, he's at worst a good starter at the next level, with the potential to be a #1 scorer.

His shooting is fine.....and now we've gone from "he can't shoot at all" takes to "he's a streaky 3PT shooter". He's passable as a shooter with steady improvement as he has aged. He should be fine at the next level in the "keep defenders honest" category.

I also think you can mistake methodical for a weak first step. Luka didn't have a great first step but he understood angles, change of speed, direction, etc....Barrett is no different IMO. His first step doesn't wow you but you keep thinking "how does this guy keep getting to the rim?".

Nathan S said:

Every prospect has weaknesses, and I think you're glossing over Barrett's.

First and foremost, his team has been scoring at will through 2 games, but Barrett has struggled so far to create efficiently, especially in the first half yesterday. What will happen to his efficiency when the going gets tough?

Secondly, there's the whole defensive side of the court...he's never been a guy who puts up big steal/block totals, and he hasn't stood out on that end in either of the first two games. History tells us to be wary of the argument that, just because he has good physical tools, he'll be able to flip the switch when it matters and transform into a great defender at the next level. It's always good to look at high school scouting reports with a bit of skepticism, and this is one area where my skepticism will quickly grow if he doesn't start to play better soon.

Click to expand...

Barrett is 56% EFG after two games.....how is he struggling to score / create efficiently? At high volume, those are marks only absolutely elite wings / guards can hit in the NBA. If his volume drags down and his efficiency sticks, then sure.

But even dropping down to the college level, only 20 college wings / guards have ever hit the 25PTS /56 EFG split (Notables being Steph, Beasley, Heild) with a minimum of 20 games played. If you get in to the 850 PTS+ mark, where Barrett will certainly have the games to qualify for, only 8 players in NCAA history have ever done that from a wing or guard position. If you add in Barrett's assists, only 2 players have ever done 25 PPG / 4 AST / 56 EFG. The assist numbers with the scoring efficiency is what makes Barrett truly elite for a wing or guard. He'd be the first Freshman to accomplish even 20 / 4 / 55 if his scoring drops considerably. There's really no context for his high volume efficiency + his assist generation at this point. They'll get in to the meat of their schedule in a few weeks and we'll have a better sense but if Barrett were on any other team doing this, it would be insane to even think about.

Defense is certainly a concern with Barrett but I also just hate Duke's system.....or should I say non system. It was the same problem I had last year with Bagley. Everything they did on D made absolutely no sense and it made it harder to evaluate Bagley specifically. But yes, I think that is certainly the big knock on him at this point.....he seems to only be hanging out around the paint to get defensive rebounds and push the ball. He isn't necessarily engaged on that end so far. I was hoping the Kentucky game would have been closer to see how he would react to possession by possession basketball, against high level comp, early in the year.

CavsFan07 said:

Anyone who doesn't think Barrett is the lock at #1 for any team in the lottery is clearly missing the boat...

Barrett is the undisputed #1 and as long as he stays healthy, I'll take bets from any of you who think someone else will be.

Click to expand...

I know for an undisputed fact that there are several teams around the league that have Zion heads and shoulders above Barrett.

There are some teams that like Barrett more too, but there are GM's and league execs out there calling Zion the "surest thing since Anthony Davis".

Acting like it's undisputed, as said by another post above me, is a nonsensical hot take. There is absolutely a legitimate debate to be had. There are execs that think Cam Reddish's game will translate the best of all and have him at #1 on their board right now.


Also, let's make that bet right now. I love bets where we raise money for RCF>

$25. I say Zion goes before Barrett. You say Barrett goes before Zion. Loser donates the $25 directly to RCF. We have a bet?