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Cleveland Indians 2018-2019 Offseason Outlook

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Andrew Scheid said:
@AZ- Marwin and Moose both mentioned and both were signed on friendly deals.
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Moose, I'll give ya, but he also went back to the team he played for last year. Not sure he signs the same deal elsewhere.

I wouldn't call 2/21 for Marwin a friendly deal though.
 
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Zero interest in long-term deals for league average (or slightly above) talent in this market.
 
Andrew Scheid said:
Trolling Tribe fans? I'm as big a Tribe fan as anyone. My frustration is devoted to people on this board who said I was lying or plain wrong to suggest that the Dolans were cutting payroll and the team wasn't going to reinvest those savings back into the roster.
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Yeah man, trolling. You claim you don’t want a victory lap, but that’s exactly what you’re doing. It seems like you have taken all of this personal. Very strange. Now you’ve dragged me down to this level, cluttering this thread even more.
 
Derek said:
Moose, I'll give ya, but he also went back to the team he played for last year. Not sure he signs the same deal elsewhere.

I wouldn't call 2/21 for Marwin a friendly deal though.
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Derek said:
Moose, I'll give ya, but he also went back to the team he played for last year. Not sure he signs the same deal elsewhere.

I wouldn't call 2/21 for Marwin a friendly deal though.
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Idk man, Fangraphs has him projected at 2.5 WAR and his defensive versatility would be enormous for this roster.
 
BMAN said:
Yeah man, trolling. You claim you don’t want a victory lap, but that’s exactly what you’re doing. It seems like you have taken all of this personal. Very strange. Now you’ve dragged me down to this level, cluttering this thread even more.
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I really didn't mean to offend you personally, sorry if I did.
 
Andrew Scheid said:
Idk man, Fangraphs has him projected at 2.5 WAR and his defensive versatility would be enormous for this roster.
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That's not the fangraphs projection you're looking at. That's the FANS projection, which is crowdsourced.

I don't see a ZIPS projection, but Steamer and Depth Charts have him at 1.6 and 1.8 respectively.

I'm not saying he wouldn't be a nice player to have, but 2/21 is not a team friendly deal. It's in the margin for fair, but probably leaning more toward player friendly.
 
Derek said:
That's not the fangraphs projection you're looking at. That's the FANS projection, which is crowdsourced.

I don't see a ZIPS projection, but Steamer and Depth Charts have him at 1.6 and 1.8 respectively.

I'm not saying he wouldn't be a nice player to have, but 2/21 is not a team friendly deal. It's in the margin for fair, but probably leaning more toward player friendly.
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Ah, my bad on the FANS.

You make a valid argument, but I still think the deal is relatively fair for a team allegedly trying to compete for a WS.
 
I get the frustration from the other side. It is most certainly frustrating seeing a competitor signing someone who could help the Indians on what appears to be a somewhat team friendly deal. I get that 100%. Think Gonzalez would have fit perfectly on this team and in the top 5-6 of the lineup.

But we have to stop acting like the Indians are operating in a vacuum. Front office has its directive. They’re doing the best they possibly can with what they have to play with. You’re seeing them value short term money and money available at the deadline/waiver period more than free agency right now. That’s their negotiating position, and it takes the perfect circumstances to get someone to fall down towards that.

Would it be awesome if we just had cash to spend and fill any hole we have by tossing money at it? Sure. But that’s not the way they operate, and few teams can actually do that. And they’re even more gun shy after their last 3 marquee signings too (Swisher, Bourn, Edwin).

This will be the norm until 2021 to 2023.
 
BimboColesHair said:
I get the frustration from the other side. It is most certainly frustrating seeing a competitor signing someone who could help the Indians on what appears to be a sonwhat twam friendly deal. I get that 100%. Think Gonzalez would have fit perfectly on this team and in the top 5-6 of the lineup.

But we have to stop acting like the Indians are operating in a vacuum. Front office has its directive. They’re doing the best they possibly can with what they have to play with. You’re seeing them value short term money and money available at the deadline/waiver period more than free agency right now. That’s their negotiating position, and it takes the perfect circumstances to get someone to fall down towards that.

Would it be awesome if we just had cash to spend and fill any hole we have by tossing money at it? Sure. But that’s not the way they operate, and few teams can actually do that. And they’re even more gun shy after their last 3 marquee signings too (Swisher, Bourn, Edwin).

This will be the norm until 2021 to 2023.
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Tough sell to imagine they aren't operating at a loss after the last few seasons of spending with little to no buy in from the fan base.

I like Marwin as well as someone who could be a swing player, but at $21 million is a bit steep for a team that already needed to cut.
 
Andrew Scheid said:
Ah, my bad on the FANS.

You make a valid argument, but I still think the deal is relatively fair for a team allegedly trying to compete for a WS.
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I just know if we start signing guys like Marwin Gonzalez to deal like that, we're going to struggle to extend our young guys to the extent that we have.

A lot of those pre-arb extensions we've seen go out the window when you start giving decent players 10.5M/year even if it's only for 2 years.

I know you wanted to see the money re-invested in FA, but I want to see it continually re-invested into retaining our own players, which is an area in which we have thrived recently.

I see free agency as a place to find bargains, and not much else. Marwin wasn't one, so I'm moving along.
 
AZ_ said:
Tough sell to imagine they aren't operating at a loss after the last few seasons of spending with little to no buy in from the fan base.

I like Marwin as well as someone who could be a swing player, but at $21 million is a bit steep for a team that already needed to cut.
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I don’t think they’re operating at a loss, but I do know they aren’t where they were expecting to be and that’s playing a role. They also know what kind of farm they have too. Multiple factors at play outside of money.

And even with the cutting back on payroll, the Indians are still operating with their 2nd most expensive roster in franchise history. It’s not like they cut back on spending to their down year levels. They’re spending way above their historic norms, it’s just not on new players so people are freaking out.
 
BimboColesHair said:
I don’t think they’re operating at a loss, but I do know they aren’t where they were expecting to be and that’s playing a role. They also know what kind of farm they have too. Multiple factors at play outside of money.

And even with the cutting back on payroll, the Indians are still operating with their 2nd most expensive roster in franchise history. It’s not like they cut back on spending to their down year levels. They’re spending way above their historic norms, it’s just not on new players so people are freaking out.
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I don't understand the short sightedness of the ownership however. They had the opportunity to create some buzz with this team, with the Cavs folding like a lawn chair after Lebron left. And they have done....nothing. There is a vaccuum they could have filled with some marginal signings. They didn't need to get Harper or Machado, but they could have at least gone after 2nd tier talent.
 
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