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2019 Draft, Pick #30 - Kevin Porter Jr., USC

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Sure, but it's easy to have good shot selection against that level of competition. Hopefully when KPJ can't get to the rim at will he'll do the smart thing and pass the ball, but I'm not convinced that he will.

As for Garland's passing, that's exactly what people said about Sexton last year in summer league/preseason action. Not a lot of assists, but some really good passes where guys missed the shot, some hockey assists. If we really want one of these guys to develop into our PG of the future, we need to give them the reins to the offense for extended stretches, not have a crazy free-for-all where 7 guys take turns creating offense.

I totally disagree. TT had 2 quality assists. Cedi had 5 assists that came in the offense, mostly pick and roll. I want the team to move he ball like that. We have seen over and over again a sole initiator get shut down in the playoffs by our own team. We have seen Harden detsroy teams all year just to not be able to make the same passes in the postseason. Oladipo, Isaiah Thomas, Lowry, the Cavs shut down sole initiators repeatedly.

The quality of passes from Garland and Sexton are on a different level. I was not a believer in Garland's touted passes because of the numbers, but you can tell he is a better passer than Sexton after one preseason game. He can just see the open man better.


At 2:13 he passes to Cedi in a nice drive and kick which Cedi misses and TT score s on the offensive rebound. Broke the D, perfect pass, missed shot.

At 2:20 he lobs to TT and Bautista does the right thing and pushes TT away from the basket. TT gets the bucket by putting it on the floor, and Garland doesn't get the assist.

3:14 breaks the D again and passes to Cedi for his made 3 and 2nd assist after that sweet pass to cutting Love, which isn;'t shown here for some reason.

6:39 pass to streaking Nance who instead of jumping for the dunk makes a touch pass to Clarkson for the short jumper.

In 14 min 9 pts 2 assists with 2 other passes leading to scores and a +21 with him on the floor. I think if you saw what happened you would like what you see. He got everyone into the offense.

Both of these guys we have to wait and see, but their instincts sure looked good.
 
Okay. Then how do you do that while maximising Sexton's value before you trade him?

You will be selling at a loss right now.

Obviously there's a balance to strike, but I feel strongly that it's a mistake to worry too much about maximizing trade value at the expense of developing our most important prospects. Sometimes you sell at a loss. It happens to every team. There's like half a dozen guys on this team we're hoping to trade, and we can't showcase all of them.

I totally disagree. TT had 2 quality assists. Cedi had 5 assists that came in the offense, mostly pick and roll. I want the team to move he ball like that. We have seen over and over again a sole initiator get shut down in the playoffs by our own team. We have seen Harden detsroy teams all year just to not be able to make the same passes in the postseason. Oladipo, Isaiah Thomas, Lowry, the Cavs shut down sole initiators repeatedly.

I think in some cases it's possible to build a good team with a lot of secondary-creator types and no primary creators. But I don't think teams like that necessarily fare better in the playoffs, and I don't think Garland fits into that scheme because he doesn't have any skills to fall back on outside of his offensive creation ability. I don't see a way for him to be a high impact player without being a high-volume creator.

The quality of passes from Garland and Sexton are on a different level. I was not a believer in Garland's touted passes because of the numbers, but you can tell he is a better passer than Sexton after one preseason game. He can just see the open man better.


At 2:13 he passes to Cedi in a nice drive and kick which Cedi misses and TT score s on the offensive rebound. Broke the D, perfect pass, missed shot.

At 2:20 he lobs to TT and Bautista does the right thing and pushes TT away from the basket. TT gets the bucket by putting it on the floor, and Garland doesn't get the assist.

3:14 breaks the D again and passes to Cedi for his made 3 and 2nd assist after that sweet pass to cutting Love, which isn;'t shown here for some reason.

6:39 pass to streaking Nance who instead of jumping for the dunk makes a touch pass to Clarkson for the short jumper.

In 14 min 9 pts 2 assists with 2 other passes leading to scores and a +21 with him on the floor. I think if you saw what happened you would like what you see. He got everyone into the offense.

Both of these guys we have to wait and see, but their instincts sure looked good.

Which of those passes, specifically, has Sexton not made? He had huge passing lanes for the dishes to Cedi, and plenty of margin for error on the lobs (neither of which were quite on target) because of the lack of length/vertical athleticism of the defense. He had less margin for error on the pass to Love, but (IIRC) he had his feet set and there was little/no pressure on the ball.
 
I totally disagree. TT had 2 quality assists. Cedi had 5 assists that came in the offense, mostly pick and roll. I want the team to move he ball like that. We have seen over and over again a sole initiator get shut down in the playoffs by our own team. We have seen Harden detsroy teams all year just to not be able to make the same passes in the postseason. Oladipo, Isaiah Thomas, Lowry, the Cavs shut down sole initiators repeatedly.

I agree with this. We even saw it firsthand how relying on only one or two primary creators can get us in trouble. Sure we won the ship but that was because we had two historically good 1-on1 creators. Having multiple initiators and options is super important and surely the most ideal.

I do however agree that Garland's abilities should be maximized, and Sexton's as well. Sexton i think will be fine ala Clarkson in a scorer type, and will probably get some minutes being the primary initiator.

I think a system like ours can be of benefit to our creators because ideally they get the ball in positions that are already giving them an advantage. So they can utilize their skills in better positions, thats the whole point no? IF its holding Garland back or we see its clearly hindering his ideal development then we should put the ball in his hands more I agree. But we need to see how it plays out.

And about Sexton, i dont think his PG skills or court vision development completely stops if he is the 2 guard in this system. Sure he doesnt get 90% of the total chances he would if he were a sole, primary creator but maybe he learns better like this where he can pick his spots, understand what works and what doesnt instead of constantly having to have to be that guy. The latter sounds more forced to me. I know its what we did last year, but even then he looked better next to other PGs and we didnt have options like Garland etc.

Come to think of it after I wrote all that out, if we have two guys that we want to be primary or at least constant creators, the best way to have them both develop is a shared system like this. Where there is no clear 1 or 2. Otherwise we would need to start prioritizing clearly one over the other. Separation between them might still come but at least it comes purely based on on-court performance.
 
Obviously there's a balance to strike, but I feel strongly that it's a mistake to worry too much about maximizing trade value at the expense of developing our most important prospects. Sometimes you sell at a loss. It happens to every team. There's like half a dozen guys on this team we're hoping to trade, and we can't showcase all of them.



I think in some cases it's possible to build a good team with a lot of secondary-creator types and no primary creators. But I don't think teams like that necessarily fare better in the playoffs, and I don't think Garland fits into that scheme because he doesn't have any skills to fall back on outside of his offensive creation ability. I don't see a way for him to be a high impact player without being a high-volume creator.



Which of those passes, specifically, has Sexton not made? He had huge passing lanes for the dishes to Cedi, and plenty of margin for error on the lobs (neither of which were quite on target) because of the lack of length/vertical athleticism of the defense. He had less margin for error on the pass to Love, but (IIRC) he had his feet set and there was little/no pressure on the ball.

Sexton has never made all of those passes in 14 min of time on the floor
 
Sexton has never made all of those passes in 14 min of time on the floor

Maybe? But I'd argue that's mainly because NBA defenses don't allow such easy passes so often, not because he's incapable of making those passes. Given the opportunity, I think Sexton, Garland, and any NBA guard worth his salt would dissect Argentine League defenses with ease. Far fewer can consistently have that success against NBA defenses.
 
Sexton has the worst court vision for a pg I can remember
 
Sexton has the worst court vision for a pg I can remember

His vision isn't great, but he's a pretty good passer.

He had an AST% of 15.3 last season, which was still better than the following NBA PGs:
- Shaun Livingston
- Brandon Knight
- George Hill
- Austin Rivers
- Seth Curry
- Grayson Allen
- Landry Shamet
- Langston Galloway
- Tyler Ulis

So yeah, not the greatest of company. His vision isn't league worst though by any stretch. It's not even the worst out of guards on our team (Knight).

Assists aren't the only barometer of good court vision, I know, but AST% does tell a pretty decent story most of the time. I'd say that Sexton is a better playmaker than those above listed guys without a doubt.
 
His vision isn't great, but he's a pretty good passer.

He had an AST% of 15.3 last season, which was still better than the following NBA PGs:
- Shaun Livingston
- Brandon Knight
- George Hill
- Austin Rivers
- Seth Curry
- Grayson Allen
- Landry Shamet
- Langston Galloway
- Tyler Ulis

So yeah, not the greatest of company. His vision isn't league worst though by any stretch. It's not even the worst out of guards on our team (Knight).

Assists aren't the only barometer of good court vision, I know, but AST% does tell a pretty decent story most of the time. I'd say that Sexton is a better playmaker than those above listed guys without a doubt.

He made no assists passes in the pre-season game. Looked to me like he was more about following the game plan and Collin didn't handle the ball that much. Gotta see more tape before we decide Collin is hopeless.

Also, didn't see any playmaking from KPJ. I would like to see more of that.
 
His vision isn't great, but he's a pretty good passer.

He had an AST% of 15.3 last season, which was still better than the following NBA PGs:
- Shaun Livingston
- Brandon Knight
- George Hill
- Austin Rivers
- Seth Curry
- Grayson Allen
- Landry Shamet
- Langston Galloway
- Tyler Ulis

So yeah, not the greatest of company. His vision isn't league worst though by any stretch. It's not even the worst out of guards on our team (Knight).

Assists aren't the only barometer of good court vision, I know, but AST% does tell a pretty decent story most of the time. I'd say that Sexton is a better playmaker than those above listed guys without a doubt.
Allen, shamet, Curry and Galloway are shooting guards.
Knight has previously shown more court vision than Sexton and so has Livingston
 
While trying to make garland and sexton seem incompatible, you are ironically shining a light on the opposite. Sexton isn’t the best passer, but still makes some impressive passes at times, while Garland seems like a more natural passer. Collin seems more powerful and forceful to the rim and can shoot threes, while Garland seems more finesse around the rim and can also shoot threes (possibly curry status - crossing fingers). IMO, the key will be unselfishness on offense and defensive effort/schemes. I don’t think offense should suffer if coached correctly, but defense is what will make or break a “competitive” season in the East. For some reason I get a D-wade/Westbrook vibe from sexton (DW is taller by 2 in. And Westbrook 1in.) And I get a Lillard vibe from garland (lillard taller by 1in.). So, if those two can make it work and defense can step up, then I think there’s a garsh doon good chanceee.
 
Allen, shamet, Curry and Galloway are shooting guards.
Knight has previously shown more court vision than Sexton and so has Livingston

- Galloway, you're correct. He shifted into pretty much full time SG last season after spending the majority of his career as a PG.
- Shamet is listed as a SG but had play run through his hands a lot last season.
- Curry spent ~40% of his time as a PG last season.
- Allen sucks, so I didn't bother to check.

Sexton is going to end up being a shooting guard this season anyways.

Knight's assist rates have trended downwards each of the past three seasons while usage rates have remained mostly the same (until he got to CLE last season). He's declining. Livingston has been playing with 4 future hall of famers that past however many seasons, and his assist metrics still are overall slightly better than Sexton at best, and he was a 14-year vet.

Important to remember that Sexton is only 20 years old and probably would have had higher assist totals if most of his teammates last season weren't potatoes. The Cavaliers had a pretty shitty roster for the most part - hard to get assists when your teammates suck, your coach sucks, your scheme sucks, and you play with Jordan Clarkson and his ball dominant ass.

Maybe give Sexton a bit of time before writing him off. He's got far from the worse passing vision in the league. He's not great, but it's not terrible either. As long as he limits his turnovers and plays a good two man game with Garland while staying in the system, I really don't care about his assist numbers.
 
If Garland is legit, why can’t Sexton be our first guard off the bench? Harden came off the bench.
 
While trying to make garland and sexton seem incompatible, you are ironically shining a light on the opposite. Sexton isn’t the best passer, but still makes some impressive passes at times, while Garland seems like a more natural passer. Collin seems more powerful and forceful to the rim and can shoot threes, while Garland seems more finesse around the rim and can also shoot threes (possibly curry status - crossing fingers). IMO, the key will be unselfishness on offense and defensive effort/schemes. I don’t think offense should suffer if coached correctly, but defense is what will make or break a “competitive” season in the East. For some reason I get a D-wade/Westbrook vibe from sexton (DW is taller by 2 in. And Westbrook 1in.) And I get a Lillard vibe from garland (lillard taller by 1in.). So, if those two can make it work and defense can step up, then I think there’s a garsh doon good chanceee.

Yesterday the coach said that Collin was not unlike Caris Levert in the type of player he is. He emphasized that Collin would only be a junior in College at this point, and he said he is working with him to develop the passing part of his game and reducing turnovers. He seemed like he thought Collin had the tools, but was more of a combo guard, which we all know. Beilein is sort of a guard whisperer. I am much more confident in Sexton and Porter addressing the holes in their games with Beilein around.

I just find it striking that both Collin and Beilein are addressing the exact issues we all have in interviews instead of Lue or Kyrie saying "just gotta play the game"
 
Yesterday the coach said that Collin was not unlike Caris Levert in the type of player he is. He emphasized that Collin would only be a junior in College at this point, and he said he is working with him to develop the passing part of his game and reducing turnovers. He seemed like he thought Collin had the tools, but was more of a combo guard, which we all know. Beilein is sort of a guard whisperer. I am much more confident in Sexton and Porter addressing the holes in their games with Beilein around.

I just find it striking that both Collin and Beilein are addressing the exact issues we all have in interviews instead of Lue or Kyrie saying "just gotta play the game"

Hahaha insane too look back at that. ..allso sad.
 
- Galloway, you're correct. He shifted into pretty much full time SG last season after spending the majority of his career as a PG.
- Shamet is listed as a SG but had play run through his hands a lot last season.
- Curry spent ~40% of his time as a PG last season.
- Allen sucks, so I didn't bother to check.

Sexton is going to end up being a shooting guard this season anyways.

Knight's assist rates have trended downwards each of the past three seasons while usage rates have remained mostly the same (until he got to CLE last season). He's declining. Livingston has been playing with 4 future hall of famers that past however many seasons, and his assist metrics still are overall slightly better than Sexton at best, and he was a 14-year vet.

Important to remember that Sexton is only 20 years old and probably would have had higher assist totals if most of his teammates last season weren't potatoes. The Cavaliers had a pretty shitty roster for the most part - hard to get assists when your teammates suck, your coach sucks, your scheme sucks, and you play with Jordan Clarkson and his ball dominant ass.

Maybe give Sexton a bit of time before writing him off. He's got far from the worse passing vision in the league. He's not great, but it's not terrible either. As long as he limits his turnovers and plays a good two man game with Garland while staying in the system, I really don't care about his assist numbers.
Not sure how I am writing him off, I'm saying he is a terrible passer not a terrible player? He can score and shoot very well, but he is not a pg. People were saying they see his assists jumping to 5 per game.. I dont see that happening.. probably ever.
Blame his teammates all you want, he has terrible court vision and thats why he doesnt get assists.
 

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