Darius Kinnard Garland

The Human Q-Tip said:

Kyle Lowry begs to disagree.

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Kyle Lowry achieved nothing as the star player of his team in the playoffs. They won with him being the role player. Even then, getting really meaningful defensive contributions from your pg, especially when compared to the 3/4/5 position is just not substantial enough to warrant picking a defensive minded PG over an offensive one.

Let's make it clear, Kyle Lowry is a high volume 3pt shooter on above average efficiency. He is still an offensive minded player. With his size, he is sitll not that impactful defensively in the NBA. When talking about real meaningful defensive contributions it usually goes hand to hand with size, length and height.

That is very true in the regular season, but very untrue the furtger you get in the playoffs. Open threes get much harder to find as the defensive intensity ramps up.

Just ask Portland.

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I don't know how many open 3's portland got in the RS compared to the playoffs.I will say that they got much betetr contributions from Lillard and McCollum compared to years past. They beat a great defensive team in Thunder and if they had Nurk they would have gone further.

You can make a good defensive team even if your PG is a defensive sieve. And Lillard is one of the worst.

I think we also need to distinguise between a great scoring PG and a PG who has great gravity because of his scoring ability/quickness, etc. By scoring PG I need a guy that makes his teammates better as a result. I don't think of scoring PGs that do not achieve that very highly.

Not if the other team has someone who can do the same, and your guy can't slow him down at all. And the kind of high-offense PG's you're describing are becoming more common around the league.

I'm not saying that a defense-first PG is a great idea. But you seem to be dismissing the idea that defense is still a very important component of a true contending team, and poor defense at the point puts your overall defense behind the 8 ball on every possession.

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Slowing down a great offensive PG is impossible by individual defense. It will always be a team effort, and that's what im saying.
Defense is super important. Team defense that is. I woud like to know the different in open looks in the RS compard to last years playoffs.

Sir'Dom Pointer said:

Ja Morant is a better passer than Russ and honestly just not quite as athletic. He is like Rondo with a better shot, more hops, better burst and worse D lol.

i think in the playoffs shooters just perform better. Especially in the PG spot. If Ja had better defense then i owuld change some things.

Garland needs to have the ball in his hands and put up tons of shots. Why does Coby White take 22 shots and Garland does not have any Green light when the Bulls are way further in the rebuild? There has to be a priority and pecking order for a rebuilding team, and shot attempts and usage should not be divided equally. I don't like it from what I have seen. I hope Beilein adjusts his philosophy from college.

Garland had +13 last night and he is not being put in a position to affect the game like he can, even this early it's apparent what he can and can not do. He needs to run the PnR or come off screens on the move as the ball handler.

Makes no sense to start Delly. I don't care that he is trying things. You need to try things, but the right things. We know what we have in TT and Nance. Try your camp guys. He barely gave them any minutes. Get your new drafties feet wet and play them more and tell them to put shots up. Delly should be the mentor and mostly a catch and shoot guy at this point in the rebuild. He hsould not control the ball so much.

fucking love my new avatar. Fucking sexy.

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I think Beilein is trying to get Garland to earn his starting spot. It hard to hand a rookie the starting spot then take it away from him and not kill his confidence.

Also I think Beilein is trying to figure out a way to play all three of Delly, Knight, and Clarkson in the rotation. There is just too much depth to make an effective rotation at this point and still give the young guys a good amount of minutes. From watching last night's game unless they can clear out at least one of Knight or Clarkson early on in the season, some of the young guys development is going to be put on hold.

Ultimately I think Garland will need to start just like Sexton did so he can grow and get away from Clarkson's ball hogging. KPJ seems ready to be Cedi's backup at SF in the rotation but he might be the one glued to the bench until someone can be traded. Windler probably isn't even in the conversation to be the rotations right now because he has missed so much time.

inliner311 said:

I think Beilein is trying to get Garland to earn his starting spot. It hard to hand a rookie the starting spot then take it away from him and not kill his confidence.

Also I think Beilein is trying to figure out a way to play all three of Delly, Knight, and Clarkson in the rotation. There is just too much depth to make an effective rotation at this point and still give the young guys a good amount of minutes. From watching last night's game unless they can clear out at least one of Knight or Clarkson early on in the season, some of the young guys development is going to be put on hold.

Ultimately I think Garland will need to start just like Sexton did so he can grow and get away from Clarkson's ball hogging. KPJ seems ready to be Cedi's backup at SF in the rotation but he might be the one glued to the bench until someone can be traded. Windler probably isn't even in the conversation to be the rotations right now because he has missed so much time.

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I hope Beilien isn't stubborn. Knight has no future on this team. Delly needs to play spot minutes or play as the SG and mostly spot up.
The depth is only depth with no quality. Having a lot of players that pla ythe same position does not equal quality depth, and so there is no reason to play them, certainly not over your prized rookie who needs the ball, and certainly not on a lottery team.

Gotta make sacrfices. Benching Knight is bad because he is a vet, blah blah blah, but it is what it is. We need to set some priorities.

And it's not just about playing time. IT's also about role on the floor..more so even.

Sir'Dom Pointer said:

I hope Beilien isn't stubborn. Knight has no future on this team. Delly needs to play spot minutes or play as the SG and mostly spot up.
The depth is only depth with no quality. Having a lot of players that pla ythe same position does not equal quality depth, and so there is no reason to play them, certainly not over your prized rookie who needs the ball, and certainly not on a lottery team.

Gotta make sacrfices. Benching Knight is bad because he is a vet, blah blah blah, but it is what it is. We need to set some priorities.

And it's not just about playing time. IT's also about role on the floor..more so even.

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I think Knight and Clarkson will have trade value which is why you play them. Delly might even have value but I question if he or the organization want to trade him. I think at the end of the day, Delly might be the one to sit and they can assure him that they intend to give him a contract next year and beyond.

Let Clarkson and Knight run the second unit if Garland can earn the starting spot. KPJ then gets to be the backup SF and we just have to hope that someone comes calling for either Clarkson or Knight fairly early.

inliner311 said:

I think Knight and Clarkson will have trade value which is why you play them. Delly might even have value but I question if he or the organization want to trade him. I think at the end of the day, Delly might be the one to sit and they can assure him that they intend to give him a contract next year and beyond.

Let Clarkson and Knight run the second unit if Garland can earn the starting spot. KPJ then gets to be the backup SF and we just have to hope that someone comes calling for either Clarkson or Knight fairly early.

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Clarkson sure. But what do you think yu can get for Knight? I don't believe he will have value whether he plays well or not.

inliner311 said:

I think Knight and Clarkson will have trade value which is why you play them. Delly might even have value but I question if he or the organization want to trade him. I think at the end of the day, Delly might be the one to sit and they can assure him that they intend to give him a contract next year and beyond.

Let Clarkson and Knight run the second unit if Garland can earn the starting spot. KPJ then gets to be the backup SF and we just have to hope that someone comes calling for either Clarkson or Knight fairly early.

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Exactly. Benching Knight and not giving him playing time is just shooting the org in the foot as long as Knight can play. If he looks like garbage consistently, then they have to move on and just take the L with the contact. But the Cavs need to maximize their expiring deals to add cache for the future. The more picks and young talent they have, the better their chances are that some will properly develop.

Mr. MacPhisto said:

Exactly. Benching Knight and not giving him playing time is just shooting the org in the foot as long as Knight can play. If he looks like garbage consistently, then they have to move on and just take the L with the contact. But the Cavs need to maximize their expiring deals to add cache for the future. The more picks and young talent they have, the better their chances are that some will properly develop.

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We have a history of that already. We do not capitalize on expirings, even our best ones. Why do you think Knights any different? What has he done in the last 3 years to convince teams that he is impactful, and why do we think him playing fairly well on a bottom dweller is going to make a contender feel any differently about him and prioritize him over other players/expirings?

Do you really think it's worth doing so if if it is at the expanse of maximizing Garland's development?

We need late 1sts, 2nd round picks that I agree with. We need a lot of that. Just don't think it's that way.

Sir'Dom Pointer said:

We have a history of that already. We do not capitalize on expirings, even our best ones. Why do you think Knights any different? What has he done in the last 3 years to convince teams that he is impactful, and why do we think him playing fairly well on a bottom dweller is going to make a contender feel any differently about him and prioritize him over other players/expirings?

Do you really think it's worth doing so if if it is at the expanse of maximizing Garland's development?

We need late 1sts, 2nd round picks that I agree with. We need a lot of that. Just don't think it's that way.

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Knight looks springier and is better defensively this year, but his decision making just ain't great. He doesn't look particularly better than any of our young players sad to say.

His game is poorly developed IMO.

Sounds to me like Beilein is just bringing Darius along a little slower because he hasn't practiced. Said in post game interview he has no qualms about starting him if he practices more.

He was left out of the 2nd half because of turning his ankle

Cavatt said:

Knight looks springier and is better defensively this year, but his decision making just ain't great. He doesn't look particularly better than any of our young players sad to say.

His game is poorly developed IMO.

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Sexton looked like the best player last night.

Sir'Dom Pointer said:

Sexton looked like the best player last night.

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Yeah vets lost that game for sure

Cavatt said:

Yeah vets lost that game for sure

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And Beilein put just weird lineups. Dunno why...even if he wanted to experiment, playing Clarkson,TT and Nance together is a weird and useless experiment lol.

Sir'Dom Pointer said:

And Beilein put just weird lineups. Dunno why...even if he wanted to experiment, playing Clarkson,TT and Nance together is a weird and useless experiment lol.

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Featuring them to trade them.

It makes sense to take it slowly with Darius and manage his minutes coming off leg injuries. Especially with an 82 game season. Take it slow, let his body heal and strengthen with an NBA staff.

AllforOne said:

Calling bullshit with extreme prejudice on this take.

It’s not “groupthink” if everybody independently examines the record and comes to the same opinion. Is it “groupthink” if many posters take somebody to task for saying the sun will rise in the west tomorrow?

As for Garland, all we have to go on the guy is four college games, one exhibition game against a weak team, and a team scrimmage that was open to the public. All of us ... okay, almost all of us can agree that it’s way too soon to call him a pussy who won’t play defense.

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The same poster having a consistently contrarian take for roughly a decade, no matter what the topic, doesn't put him above everyone else. Don't worry about those folks. The subject here shouldn't be the posters - it should be Darius Garland.

Speaking of which, I do think it's fair to say the skill set looks impressive but the conditioning coaches will have their hands full in the coming two years. The Cavs front office drafted offensive skill with questionable physical strength. They had some luck developing Cedi physically, and I'm hopeful these young kids with teen bodies will see the same fruits.

Randolphkeys said:

The same poster having a consistently contrarian take for roughly a decade, no matter what the topic, doesn't put him above everyone else. Don't worry about those folks. The subject here shouldn't be the posters - it should be Darius Garland.

Speaking of which, I do think it's fair to say the skill set looks impressive but the conditioning coaches will have their hands full in the coming two years. The Cavs front office drafted offensive skill with questionable physical strength. They had some luck developing Cedi physically, and I'm hopeful these young kids with teen bodies will see the same fruits.

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Garland definitely lacks strength right now, but I think his defense looks pretty solid. Whether Sexton has improved a lot this year remains to be seen, but I think Garland is much further along than Sexton was last year

Also in general the defense looks a lot better.