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2021 NBA Offseason Thread

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InBoobieWeTrust said:
I'd take the 2017 Cavs in 5 over this Lakers team, TBH. So I think it's kind of dumb to say that the Lakers have somehow done a better job building a team around LBJ just because Klutch gifted them Davis and Kawhi leaving Toronto gifted them Green.
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It's way too early to call that and will probably be impossible to answer anyways, but the Cavs were an offensive powerhouse while the Lakers (especially with some tweaks, i.e. Iggy) can be a defensive juggernaut.

Cavs were a far more potent and prolific shooting team, but Davis is potentially better than Kyrie + Love combined, and that front court when engaged is just nasty...
 
JMoneyYourHoney said:
It's way too early to call that and will probably be impossible to answer anyways, but the Cavs were an offensive powerhouse while the Lakers (especially with some tweaks, i.e. Iggy) can be a defensive juggernaut.

Cavs were a far more potent and prolific shooting team, but Davis is potentially better than Kyrie + Love combined, and that front court when engaged is just nasty...
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I think it's hard to say AD is the best player that Lebron has played with, but he is so unusual, he might be the hardest to stop. Like Wade and Kyrie both are amazing almost unstoppable talents, but Davis's size and skills just put him somewhere else. I think it is pretty hard to compare.
 
Cavatt said:
I think it's hard to say AD is the best player that Lebron has played with, but he is so unusual, he might be the hardest to stop. Like Wade and Kyrie both are amazing almost unstoppable talents, but Davis's size and skills just put him somewhere else. I think it is pretty hard to compare.
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It's really hard to say simply because you don't know if his first year with Wade was the start of Wade's decline.

But imo 2009 Wade was better than AD has been in any single season. And that's not a knock on AD. But 2009 Wade (the year before LeBron got there) was the 2nd best player in the league, though no one was saying it (people still thought Kobe was the best).
 
Rich said:
It's really hard to say simply because you don't know if his first year with Wade was the start of Wade's decline.

But imo 2009 Wade was better than AD has been in any single season. And that's not a knock on AD. But 2009 Wade (the year before LeBron got there) was the 2nd best player in the league, though no one was saying it (people still thought Kobe was the best).
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Yeah, and what they provide and how they fit together are different. Wade was 28 then, 2 years older than Davis is now. Davis has never played so free, so we don't know how much better he can be when he looks dynamite now. Hard to argue that he isn't a better fit with Lebron.

I think I agree Wade was the 2nd best player in the league in 2009, but maybe not in 2010.

So, I dunno. Shaq in his prime is better than Wade in his right? lol
 
Cavatt said:
I think it's hard to say AD is the best player that Lebron has played with, but he is so unusual, he might be the hardest to stop. Like Wade and Kyrie both are amazing almost unstoppable talents, but Davis's size and skills just put him somewhere else. I think it is pretty hard to compare.
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I don't think it's a question that at this point in his career, AD is easily more gifted than any person LeBron ever played with.

Of course what really matters is how they perform in the playoffs together, because as we know Kyrie, while erratic, could be a monster when the lights were brightest.
 
Ethan said:
Then how amped Lebron was when we added Hood and Clarkson.
The first few games with the new guys the cavs looked amazing. Then magically everyone regressed.
Its funny how crowder, hood, and hill now look pretty good playing without lebron.
I feel like lebron knew he was leaving and didnt care about building chemistry and good habits.

When the playoffs came, he put the team on his back because that's all he could do at that point.
Made himself look good in the end. Im sure thats all he cared about.
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Crowder is shooting 29% from the field on a lottery team. Last year he shot 40% from the field and was 59th of 74 small forwards in DRPM. In two postseasons with Utah he shot 37% and 32.4% from the field.

Hood had a similar shooting percentage on the Blazers last year as he did with LeBron. He was a negative BPM and had a negative VORP last year.

Last year George Hill shot 43% from the field and 28% from 3 (both worse than with LeBron). He played well in the 2018 playoffs until he played like trash in the finals. That's not on LeBron. The moment was too big for him.

The idea that those players "now look pretty good playing without LeBron" has no basis in reality. I get that people want to hate on LeBron because he left, but these statements just aren't true. LeBron didn't "put the team on his back" to make himself look good. He did it because the supporting cast was terrible and it was the only way they would advance.
 
Hachimura has been pretty impressive so far barring the Minnesota game. I think he can be a very good player if he can get a more consistent 3 point shot. His mid-range and post-game are already there for the most part.
 
Wow, Phoenix without Ayton beating Philly without Embiid. Booker is tearing it up. Maybe Phoenix is for real.
 
cavsfever said:
Wow, Phoenix without Ayton beating Philly without Embiid. Booker is tearing it up. Maybe Phoenix is for real.
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That's what I'm wondering are they a young team that is just having a hot start that will eventually fall back down to earth hard? Or have they actually taken a huge step up the ranks?
 
Cavatt said:
Yeah, and what they provide and how they fit together are different. Wade was 28 then, 2 years older than Davis is now. Davis has never played so free, so we don't know how much better he can be when he looks dynamite now. Hard to argue that he isn't a better fit with Lebron.

I think I agree Wade was the 2nd best player in the league in 2009, but maybe not in 2010.

So, I dunno. Shaq in his prime is better than Wade in his right? lol
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Wade was a bad fit with Lebron, and also started to fall apart pretty quickly physically soon after Lebron came over. 2011 Wade was not as good as 2009 Wade, and then by the 2012 playoffs and after Wade was just a shadow of what he was at his peak, plagued by chronic knee problems.

Kyrie was a tremendous fit with Lebron on the offensive end, probably the best offensive fit he has ever played with. AD on the other hand is a far better defensive fit and a good offensive fit, so there's a good argument that he will be overall his best partner ever. On the other hand, like Wade and Kyrie he is physically fragile so we'll see if he holds up through the playoffs.
 
MediumBaller said:
The idea that those players "now look pretty good playing without LeBron" has no basis in reality. I get that people want to hate on LeBron because he left, but these statements just aren't true. LeBron didn't "put the team on his back" to make himself look good. He did it because the supporting cast was terrible and it was the only way they would advance.
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If you think Lebron wasnt half assing it in the regular season that also has no basis in reality.
Chemistry and habits are built in the regular season. While most of the time lebron was walking around picking his spots.
Yet we get to the playoffs and suddenly the argument is that everyone else sucks except lebron. Give me a break.
Lebron was a premadonna drama queen who forced everything on offense to be ran through him. He made sure his numbers were good.
No chance for ball movement every possession was him driving and kicking so he would either get a bucket or an assist.
He wasn't as good of a teammate as you would like him to be. His body language was garbage.

Only reason Lebron is on his best behavior now is that AD can walk at the end of the year.

"Honestly, it's nothing like playing at home," Davis responded, after the room filled with laughter. "I don't know. ... I mean, I am a free agent next year, but we'll see. It's a possibility."
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Even Rose has looked better without Lebron. Pull up his stats im sure you can find a way to deny that too lol.
 
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Ethan said:
If you think Lebron wasnt half assing it in the regular season that also has no basis in reality.
Chemistry and habits are built in the regular season. While most of the time lebron was walking around picking his spots.
Yet we get to the playoffs and suddenly the argument is that everyone else sucks except lebron. Give me a break.
Lebron was a premadonna drama queen who forced everything on offense to be ran through him. He made sure his numbers were good.
No chance for ball movement every possession was him driving and kicking so he would either get a bucket or an assist.
He wasn't as good of a teammate as you would like him to be. His body language was garbage.

Only reason Lebron is on his best behavior now is that AD can walk at the end of the year.
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LeBron half assed it during the regular season so that he could carry that horrible supporting cast to the Finals. Larry Nance was the only other player with a positive BPM in the playoffs and the 12 non-LeBron players combined for a 0 VORP in the playoffs in 22 games. Would you rather he go all out on some random night in January or May? Because you're not going to get eight 40 point games in the playoffs from LeBron if you have him going all out midseason. The regular season is a marathon, not a sprint. All he had to do was get to the playoffs healthy.

And yeah, the rest of the team sucked. That shouldn't be controversial. I guess it was LeBron's fault that Kyle Korver shot 6% in the NBA finals? That JR Smith forgot what the score was? "All-star" Kevin Love was complete ass for half of the playoffs, averaging 11 ppg on 46% TS in the first round and 12.5 ppg on 48% TS in the ECF. LeBron left and the Cavs won 19 games the next season and had one of the worst defenses in NBA history. That must have been his fault too. But hey, at least he wasn't there "forcing everything to run through him."
 
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MediumBaller said:
LeBron half assed it during the regular season so that he could carry that horrible supporting cast to the Finals. Larry Nance was the only other player with a positive BPM in the playoffs and the 12 non-LeBron players combined for a 0 VORP in the playoffs in 22 games. Would you rather he go all out on some random night in January or May? Because you're not going to get eight 40 point games in the playoffs from LeBron if you have him going all out midseason. The regular season is a marathon, not a sprint. All he had to do was get to the playoffs healthy.

And yeah, the rest of the team sucked. That shouldn't be controversial. I guess it was LeBron's fault that Kyle Korver shot 6% in the NBA finals? That JR Smith forgot what the score was? "All-star" Kevin Love was complete ass for half of the playoffs, averaging 11 ppg on 46% TS in the first round and 12.5 ppg on 48% TS in the ECF. LeBron left and the Cavs won 19 games the next season and had one of the worst defenses in NBA history. That must have been his fault too. But hey, at least he wasn't there "forcing everything to run through him."
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He's still half assing it with the Lakers: he's first half production is very much in line with a 35 yo dude with a lot of miles on those legs. He's definitely saving it for the second half.

Also, one difference is that the lakers with AD can safely throw him in the ball and see if he can get something. Not as efficient as a Lebron PnR but definitely doesn't wear him out as much
 
cavsfever said:
Wow, Phoenix without Ayton beating Philly without Embiid. Booker is tearing it up. Maybe Phoenix is for real.
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Monty Williams seems like a good coach and a guy dudes will listen too.
 
Eric Paschall with 36 points, 13 rebounds, 4 3PT and counting for Copper State tonight.

For the 41st pick, looks like they might have gotten a steal. Can't wait for this value pick to plug in with Curry, Klay, Draymond, whatever all-star they end up robbing some other team of for D'Angelo, and the #1 pick this summer.

They sure deserve it.
 
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