Vogel has done an amazing job with that team, mainly their defense is far better than expected, and I think he probably has a ton of credit with Lebron and the front office. After those great battles with Indiana in the early oughts I think LBJ knows what a good coach he is. So I doubt his decisions are driven by fear.
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2021 NBA Offseason Thread
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Sir'Dom Pointer
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Pioneer10
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Vogel has done a good job but jesus Dwight Howard has been a beast. I don't think people realize till you watch them but that combo of McGee, Howard, and AD is maybe one of the biggest/longest/most atheltic big man rotations ever. You have to go back to the Bynum/Gasol/Odom Lakers to have an equivalent but Howard off the bench is no joke. If they're healthy and motivated that Cavs-Laker game could be ugly as that Laker frontcourt will just swallow a guy like Sexton whole and both Love and TT don't deal with length
Surprised there's not more of a consensus behind LeBron for MVP. I have every reason to be biased against him and the Lakers, but he's head and shoulders above Doncic/Giannis/Harden at this point.
Pioneer10
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Really? Lebron's been my favorite player in the league so I'm biased towards him but outside of +/- which is going to be impacted by how the lakers are constructed and how awful Rondo has been, Giannis is just so good. 1st in PER, 1st in BPM, 2nd RAPM
Depends on how you define "Valuable" I guess. The difference LeBron makes for the Lakers when he's on the court is just so stark compared to the difference Giannis makes for the Bucks. Looking at their stats, one way to see this is in how many minutes they play...Giannis hasn't played 35 minutes in a game since November, including blowouts, close games, and losses. Not doubting his greatness, it's just that his minutes don't have the same value to the Bucks that LeBron's minutes have to the Lakers. Who expected the Lakers to run away with the #1 seed in the West this year? And as good as AD's been, a closer look suggests it's really all LeBron, who became the best PG (of all time?) basically overnight.
Pioneer10
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I would still go with Giannis based on the individual metrics but a lot of that is on team makeup IMO. It will a great playoffs this year as the Bucks, Clips, and Lakers are clear favorites and they're all constructed very differently.
I agree Lebron has been sensational at PG. While Bosh/Wade was great the Lakers big men combo of AD/Javale/Dwight have so much athleticism and length that this maybe the first team in Lebron's career that he's played with better finishers then himself
Lebron's raw plus-minus is almost double Giannis. Lakers outscore teams by 12.2 when Lebron is on court, get outscored by 2.5 when he is off court. Difference between the best team in the league and a mediocre team that doesn't make the playoffs. Bucks outscore teams by 15 when Giannis is on court, by 7.6 when he is off court. Difference between the top team in the league and a high playoff seed team. I know which seems more valuable to me...
Still feels to me like the Lakers need one more guy and I don't know how they can possibly get him, they have zero draft choices and are loaded with untradable players.
I don't think Lebron will ever again win MVP though, almost no matter what he does. MVP is a weird award, it's like a certification for greatness and Lebron has already been so thoroughly certified that he doesn't "need" another MVP. There will always be a backlog of players who the league / press "need" to be recognized as OMG this guy is great.
JMoneyYourHoney
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The Lakers are the frontrunners to sign Collison and they're working to trade Kuzma + salary for a 3&D wing guy. They've engaged Sacramento in talks about Bogdanovic and have reached out to the Timberwolves about Covington. Then of course there's the talk that they're Iggy's preferred destination if Memphis buys him out.
I think odds are high that they get at least one of these guys. If they get 2 or even 3 I'd say that the margin between them and the 2nd place team is comfortable.
Thing is, if Bogdanovich and Covington are available I have a hard time believing the Lakers won't get outbid for them. It's not just whether the Lakers have something to offer, it's whether someone else has more to offer. Lakers can give you Kyle Kuzma and that's pretty much it. What can the Sixers, Raptors, Celtics, etc. offer?
Rich
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Essentially punishing Giannis because the Bucks have built a good roster, not because he actually isn't the better player currently.
If the Bucks can win without Giannis but the Lakers can’t without Lebron, and the two teams have similar records, doesn’t that make Lebron more valuable?
Also Lebron’s actual plus-minus is higher than Giannis by quite a bit — 14.7 point diff for Lebron vs 7.4 for Giannis
Stark
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