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Browns hire Andrew Berry

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Soda said:
Ron Wolf was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2015. I’m not saying he’s a numbers savant, but the use of data, aka analytics, was being employed by NFL teams during most of his tenure. Especially true if we credit Paul Brown with giving birth to the concept.
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It was a strange comment to make. Almost certainly just sour grapes for his son.
 
Scholar said:
Actually, it got them the first picks in consecutive drafts as was planned. The fact that they were only 1-31 doesn't mean a damn thing. Sashi did what he intended to do in regards to that. The picks they collected sure helped Dorsey in his draft. Anyways, Lets see how this all plays out and patiently let Stefanski and Berry do their jobs.
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The plan in 2017 was almost certainly not to suck THAT badly. That team had talent, but Hue gonna Hue.

Dorsey and Sashi both could have been successful if either hired a decent coach.
 
Amherstcavsfan said:
The plan in 2017 was almost certainly not to suck THAT badly. That team had talent, but Hue gonna Hue.

Dorsey and Sashi both could have been successful if either hired a decent coach.
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To be fair, from everything we've heard, Sashi never wanted Hue as coach.

Dorsey, on the other hand, absolutely wanted Kitchens. So did a lot of us, but then again we don't get to sit down and interview these guys for hours and only had the success of the latter half of last year to go on.
 
When Elliot left the packers Ron wasn’t too happy with them. This is just a dad getting emotional over his son not getting a promotion.
 
Fuuuuuuuck these people, man.

The absolute gall of anyone to suggest that Eliot fucking Wolf is some sort of template for what constitutes a “football guy” over Andrew Berry.

Ill bet a second mortgage that Eliot Wolf has taken more wedgies and been stuffed in more lockers than Andrew Berry has. What the fuck makes Wolf “more qualified” to evaluate football talent?

Guess the “it factor” is bullshit on more than just player evals, now.
 
With respect to scouting for this years draft, it is unfortunate that Malin, Highsmith, Wolf are all gone. Nonetheless, the risk of losing the trio is not a good enough reason for the Browns not to hire the GM that they wanted.

I'll take the Browns attempting to align their front office with head coach over losing a fair bit of scouting for a single draft. The long term benefit of the former outweighs the latter.
 
Amherstcavsfan said:
I will also say this:

There is no guarantee this will work. Andrew Berry might be a fraud, just another in a long list of highly touted but ultimately unsuccessful NFL FO guys that come to Cleveland and fail.

To place the blame at the feet of analytics is foolish, though. There are plenty of examples of athletic and statistical thresholds that can help in player evaluation. It's not everything, though, and you still need someone who can correctly evaluate tape, identify talent. It's not like they can just run a computer simulation and just draft the guy with the best numbers.

Guys like Elliot Wold, Alonzo Highsmith and even John Dorsey have shown they can identify talent. To that end, so has Andrew Berry. They need more people in the organization that can identify these players and, ideally, do it at a better level than most NFL teams. Which is why I support the analytical approach to these things, because more information and quantifying any sort of success is important to take that next step.

I was a big fan of the Sashi approach. I think Berry will be, roughly, the same sort of philosophy to team building and approach to FA. Hopefully Berry has a better success record than Sashi had during the draft.
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I agree with this mostly. I am all for “analytics” and the pushback it gets is laughable to me. But at the end of the day it can’t be all one way or the other. This will require a conglomeration of analytics and old school football analysis.

I hope we get that.

I think this thing was ill conceived under Sashi and this time the FO and coaching will be much more in alignment. If it works, it’ll be largely due to that.

However one thing I’m seeing in the fan base is the touting of Dorsey’s way as a failure and outside of the Freddy hire I just don’t agree. If people expect this team to never go 6-10 ever again, we will be hiring and firing people every few years until the end of fucking time. Now I’m fine with Dorsey and crew being gone if they truly wanted to keep Freddy. Fine. But as far as their moves to bring in talent, I found it to be pretty successful...although not perfect. Everything that could go wrong this year did, and with Stefanski this team very well could have gone 9-7 or 10-6 in 2020 with Dorsey’s regime in place.

Browns decided a total overhaul was required...again... and maybe it was. For alignment purposes. Or whatever. Great. But the last thing I want to see is this team win 10 games this year and then take a step back in 2021 and Haslam fire everybody again. They need to stick this out. And people need to realize even good franchises go 6-10 and 5-11 sometimes.
 
AZ_ said:
Fuuuuuuuck these people, man.

The absolute gall of anyone to suggest that Eliot fucking Wolf is some sort of template for what constitutes a “football guy” over Andrew Berry.

Ill bet a second mortgage that Eliot Wolf has taken more wedgies and been stuffed in more lockers than Andrew Berry has. What the fuck makes Wolf “more qualified” to evaluate football talent?

Guess the “it factor” is bullshit on more than just player evals, now.
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AZ_ flaunting his expertise in wedgies and getting stuffed in lockers.

tenor.gif

I do not plan on flippantly dismissing what might be a huge overhaul of the front office. We are hearing the names of three lead figures in scouting who left today. I am expecting more of the lower rung scouts to be making some tough decisions, especially if they were brought in by Dorsey, Highsmith and Wolf. This was exactly what concerned me when rumors circled that Dorsey's job is on jeopardy... the scouts doing legwork all college football season are a lot of his hand-picked guys.
 
Chris said:
I agree with this mostly. I am all for “analytics” and the pushback it gets is laughable to me. But at the end of the day it can’t be all one way or the other. This will require a conglomeration of analytics and old school football analysis.

I hope we get that.

I think this thing was ill conceived under Sashi and this time the FO and coaching will be much more in alignment. If it works, it’ll be largely due to that.

However one thing I’m seeing in the fan base is the touting of Dorsey’s way as a failure and outside of the Freddy hire I just don’t agree. If people expect this team to never go 6-10 ever again, we will be hiring and firing people every few years until the end of fucking time. Now I’m fine with Dorsey and crew being gone if they truly wanted to keep Freddy. Fine. But as far as their moves to bring in talent, I found it to be pretty successful...although not perfect. Everything that could go wrong this year did, and with Stefanski this team very well could have gone 9-7 or 10-6 in 2020 with Dorsey’s regime in place.

Browns decided a total overhaul was required...again... and maybe it was. For alignment purposes. Or whatever. Great. But the last thing I want to see is this team win 10 games this year and then take a step back in 2021 and Haslam fire everybody again. They need to stick this out. And people need to realize even good franchises go 6-10 and 5-11 sometimes.
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The issue under Sashi was largely that there was a constant power struggle between him and Hue that was enabled by ownership. They were never once under the same page and neither guy wanted to work with the other from the start, although I'm willing to bet that Sashi was willing to let that slide and do what he could while Hue spent the bulk of his time sharpening the knife he'd eventually use on Sashi's back.

At least this time it seems like the three main players in our organization are on the same page. It might not work, but it's at least a step in the right direction.
 
AZ_ said:
Fuuuuuuuck these people, man.

The absolute gall of anyone to suggest that Eliot fucking Wolf is some sort of template for what constitutes a “football guy” over Andrew Berry.

Ill bet a second mortgage that Eliot Wolf has taken more wedgies and been stuffed in more lockers than Andrew Berry has. What the fuck makes Wolf “more qualified” to evaluate football talent?

Guess the “it factor” is bullshit on more than just player evals, now.
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People equate Berry to analytics.

For some illogical and asinine reason, some in the local media (and therefore some fans), think anyone associated with analytics thinks a football is a foreign object that they think should be hit into a hoop with a baseball bat.
 
AZ_ said:
Fuuuuuuuck these people, man.

The absolute gall of anyone to suggest that Eliot fucking Wolf is some sort of template for what constitutes a “football guy” over Andrew Berry.

Ill bet a second mortgage that Eliot Wolf has taken more wedgies and been stuffed in more lockers than Andrew Berry has. What the fuck makes Wolf “more qualified” to evaluate football talent?

Guess the “it factor” is bullshit on more than just player evals, now.
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you own you own house?? jesus i thought you were like 20 and in college.

where does the time go.....
 
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Jack Brickman said:
The issue under Sashi was largely that there was a constant power struggle between him and Hue that was enabled by ownership. They were never once under the same page and neither guy wanted to work with the other from the start, although I'm willing to bet that Sashi was willing to let that slide and do what he could while Hue spent the bulk of his time sharpening the knife he'd eventually use on Sashi's back.

At least this time it seems like the three main players in our organization are on the same page. It might not work, but it's at least a step in the right direction.
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Yep that was basically one of my main points and I agree, if it works, alignment will be a huge reason why. Pairing Hue with Sashi was just a disaster.
 
MoFlo said:
People equate Berry to analytics.

For some illogical and asinine reason, some in the local media (and therefore some fans), think anyone associated with analytics thinks a football is a foreign object that they think should be hit into a hoop with a baseball bat.
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Its DePodesta.

He’s not behind any good thing the organization has done, outside the Osweiler move. Even then, that had zero to do with positively affecting that team. It was a pure buy. It’s fine, but his bigger grip on the football operations is absolutely unwarranted. So, I see a guy with no accountability saying “told ya so” like any other armchair GM.
 
NorthCoastBias said:
lol

Old man is big mad.

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Dear God, are these Football Guys™ the biggest bunch of butt-hurt whiners.

At every turn they mock and denigrate people who use analytics whilst exposing their complete ignorance of the practice and what it has to offer. And then when they bloomed they cry like babies.

Welp, I hope they enjoy their journey to the dust-bin of football history along with Dan Marino's Isotoner commercials.

Also, if people recall, Papa Wolf has been pissed at the Browns ever since they hired him as a consultant in the 2000s and they shat on his recommendations.
 
Wolf's comment was extremely rude to the Haslams and all of the football guys who recently vouched for Berry. Why Eliott Wolf, who never played college football and basically came straight from college to work for his Dad, is more qualified than Andrew Berry is a mystery.

Having a bunch of people attend Senior Bowl practices is optimal but missing a couple in 2020 isn't going to make a fart's difference in the wind on how soon this team will make the playoffs. OTOH, getting the right people in place from top down is critical.
 
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