• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

The 2020 Cleveland Indians

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
I find it interesting that in a sport in which every aspect is broken down into myriad statistics, and projections based upon those statistics are microscopically viewed and depended upon to see into the future, so many fans ignore the same kind of statistical analysis when it comes to a pandemic.

Florida is seeing over 9000 new cases a day. Texas, Arizona, and California arent far behind. Those four states encompass one third of all MLB teams. And MLB players are in the age group that is now the driving force of the new explosion.

I dont know exactly how many people are involved in MLB, but when families are included, the number has to be at least 10,000. There is no way to isolate 10,000 people across much of North America for three or four months.

The NBA already has 5% of its 300 players in isolation. MLB is talking about 1800 players.

The math, no matter the protocols, simply does not work. Of course, maybe MLB gets lucky. Of course, the Royals could make the playoffs.

As for the crack that the sky is not falling...it already has. Just ask the families and friends of the nearly 130,000 Americans who have died so far, with no end in sight.
Well I see you read my post Cats. Still can't just come out and quote it.

Some things die hard it seems

You're opinion and mine differ, and you could be right. I stick by - they will play the whole season (including the post) and represented the gloom and doom outlook to the contrary with - the sky is not falling - which incidentally has nothing to do with 130K Americans dying. I am capable of - holding care and compassion for all Americans who have lost there lives and still believe that baseball will make it through an entire season - as two distinct intellectual thoughts in my mind at one time. But if you want to try and paint my comment with that brush, it simply is not accurate and a poor attempt to try and equate things that have no relation to each other.

Just another attempt to smear by innuendo

Some things die hard it seems
 
Guys, if you want to discuss the virus in the baseball specific context of how it may affect the season, players wearing masks, etc. That's fine - that belongs in this forum.

If you want to give your opinion about the virus in general, or the wearing of masks/social distancing in society generally, or the human cost in general, this is NOT the forum for that. That belongs in the politics forum alone.

I will not permit the vitriol that often accompanies such discussions to get a foothold in this BASEBALL forum.

@CATS44 @sportscoach @Lord Mar

Just a reminder to ensure your conversation here stays within those lines
Sorry Q, wrote my post before I got down to yours. But even after I read your post, I am not sure that I would revise anything I put in mine. So if you don't think it is fair game for me to respond in the way I did, I am more than happy to avoid it, as one of the points of my post was that it had no place here.
 
"I know COVID adds an extra wrinkle, but if things get bad enough that we're going deep into the taxi squad during a 60 game season, then the season is probably doomed at that point anyway."

It stands to reason there will be fewer injuries in a 60-game season than a 162-game season. Unless there is a significant virus outbreak they might need only 2-4 replacements brought up. I agree that the majority of the taxi squad should be the prospects with the highest long term upsides regardless of age. There's no point in having a ton of older, AAAA guys unless the Indians think they could lose a lot of players to the virus and other teams could as well.

Could you imagine going into the final week or two tied for first with the Twins and both teams down to their 10th and 11th starters?

This season might come down to who does the best job of keeping their top players eligible to play and who has the best AAA players. Losing three starters for two weeks to covid at the same time would be devastating, especially considering the reduced number of games.

This caught my attention from Hoynes' latest column:

"Since teams will be able only to trade players from their 60-player pool this season, if you see teams adding their top prospects to their pool as the deadline approaches, it could be a sign that the bidding for Lindor is on."

I didn't realize teams could add and subtract players from their 60-man pool. However, they would have to trade or release somebody to make room.

"Teams cannot exceed 60 players in their designated player pool. To add a player, they must remove another through an improved transaction (including trades, waiver claims, releases, outright assignments, etc.)"

One thing the Indians have in their favor is a lot of guys who can play different positions, especially in the outfield. But Hosey can shift over to second base if necessary and I can see how a guy like Mike Freeman would be valuable.

Fans are always wanting to rank prospects and of course teams are not going to release their internal rankings. But this might be one exception. We should get a good insight into which prospects the Indians are highest on when the taxi squad roster is fully released today.

For me the biggest issue is not who is going to fill out the last few spots on the 20-man, but rather how this season will affect the Indians going forward. Antonetti was quoted recently as saying the Indians' financial losses this season will be "extraordinary". What does that mean for the future?

According to Hoynes:

"A few days ago a national baseball writer told a Cleveland sports talk show that he’d been told that the Indians were going to conduct “a fire sale.”

I believe it, but when? Next month? After the season? They've already been conducting mini fire sales at the end of every season. Kluber, Bauer, and Gomes are already gone in order to reduce payroll. Puig was not resigned. And that was pre-virus when they weren't having huge losses.

Now they expect to have "extraordinary" losses. I'm expecting an extraordinary fire sale. Hoynes mentioned Santana, Hand, and Clevinger in addition to Lindor. This season might be our last window of opportunity for a few years. At the end of this season at the latest I think they'll all be gone and probably Carrasco as well.
 
Well I see you read my post Cats. Still can't just come out and quote it.

Some things die hard it seems

You're opinion and mine differ, and you could be right. I stick by - they will play the whole season (including the post) and represented the gloom and doom outlook to the contrary with - the sky is not falling - which incidentally has nothing to do with 130K Americans dying. I am capable of - holding care and compassion for all Americans who have lost there lives and still believe that baseball will make it through an entire season - as two distinct intellectual thoughts in my mind at one time. But if you want to try and paint my comment with that brush, it simply is not accurate and a poor attempt to try and equate things that have no relation to each other.

Just another attempt to smear by innuendo

Some things die hard it seems
:conf (2):

I.......

Don't think @CATS44 post had anything to do with what you said or at least anything i could find. So calling him out 4 times in a post isn't cool.

Forum related there is absolutely a non 0 chance the season doesn't even get started. And i know ive been playing gloom and doom but i would be shocked if this season finishes through the playoffs.
 
"I know COVID adds an extra wrinkle, but if things get bad enough that we're going deep into the taxi squad during a 60 game season, then the season is probably doomed at that point anyway."

It stands to reason there will be fewer injuries in a 60-game season than a 162-game season. Unless there is a significant virus outbreak they might need only 2-4 replacements brought up. I agree that the majority of the taxi squad should be the prospects with the highest long term upsides regardless of age. There's no point in having a ton of older, AAAA guys unless the Indians think they could lose a lot of players to the virus and other teams could as well.

Could you imagine going into the final week or two tied for first with the Twins and both teams down to their 10th and 11th starters?

This season might come down to who does the best job of keeping their top players eligible to play and who has the best AAA players. Losing three starters for two weeks to covid at the same time would be devastating, especially considering the reduced number of games.

This caught my attention from Hoynes' latest column:

"Since teams will be able only to trade players from their 60-player pool this season, if you see teams adding their top prospects to their pool as the deadline approaches, it could be a sign that the bidding for Lindor is on."

I didn't realize teams could add and subtract players from their 60-man pool. However, they would have to trade or release somebody to make room.

"Teams cannot exceed 60 players in their designated player pool. To add a player, they must remove another through an improved transaction (including trades, waiver claims, releases, outright assignments, etc.)"

One thing the Indians have in their favor is a lot of guys who can play different positions, especially in the outfield. But Hosey can shift over to second base if necessary and I can see how a guy like Mike Freeman would be valuable.

Fans are always wanting to rank prospects and of course teams are not going to release their internal rankings. But this might be one exception. We should get a good insight into which prospects the Indians are highest on when the taxi squad roster is fully released today.

For me the biggest issue is not who is going to fill out the last few spots on the 20-man, but rather how this season will affect the Indians going forward. Antonetti was quoted recently as saying the Indians' financial losses this season will be "extraordinary". What does that mean for the future?

According to Hoynes:

"A few days ago a national baseball writer told a Cleveland sports talk show that he’d been told that the Indians were going to conduct “a fire sale.”

I believe it, but when? Next month? After the season? They've already been conducting mini fire sales at the end of every season. Kluber, Bauer, and Gomes are already gone in order to reduce payroll. Puig was not resigned. And that was pre-virus when they weren't having huge losses.

Now they expect to have "extraordinary" losses. I'm expecting an extraordinary fire sale. Hoynes mentioned Santana, Hand, and Clevinger in addition to Lindor. This season might be our last window of opportunity for a few years. At the end of this season at the latest I think they'll all be gone and probably Carrasco as well.
As always, I think there's a good chance that Paul Hoynes doesn't have a clue
 
The big vulnerability as I see it is catching. The Indians only have two major league caliber catchers on their roster. In February they signed Cameron Rupp, a 31-year-old minor league lifer with nearly 300 games in the bigs. He hit .217 last year. They also invited Beau Taylor to camp, a 30-year-old with virtually no major league experience. I could see these guys on the 20-man in case Berto or Leon gets the virus or a baseball injury.

Another possibility is Kungkuan Giljeiljaw, a 26-year-old who hit .229 in AA last year. I'm sure the Tribe's announcers are praying he doesn't get brought up.

This season could come down to which teams do the best job of keeping their major league starters from getting infected and avoiding a run of infections at one position where they lack depth.
 
The big vulnerability as I see it is catching. The Indians only have two major league caliber catchers on their roster. In February they signed Cameron Rupp, a 31-year-old minor league lifer with nearly 300 games in the bigs. He hit .217 last year. They also invited Beau Taylor to camp, a 30-year-old with virtually no major league experience. I could see these guys on the 20-man in case Berto or Leon gets the virus or a baseball injury.

Another possibility is Kungkuan Giljeiljaw, a 26-year-old who hit .229 in AA last year. I'm sure the Tribe's announcers are praying he doesn't get brought up.

This season could come down to which teams do the best job of keeping their major league starters from getting infected and avoiding a run of infections at one position where they lack depth.
I would expect Rupp and Taylor along with Naylor.

Giljegiljaw, as you said, would be a possibility as well if they wanted to have one more option.

Does anybody have an idea of how it's pronounced? It's pretty easy to sound out phonetically "GIL-je-GIL-jaw" but I know names aren't always pronounced as they appear.
 
I think they are fine at C, I think all 4 are capable receivers even if only 1 can hit marginally like a bigleaguer. Still can't figure out why Haase was dealt but oh well, small thing I guess. Add:. Didn't realize he was from Dearborn, I guess he gets to play for what I assume is his childhood favorite team. That's cool.

This is just gonna be wierd, but wierd ornot hopefully the Tribe can stay healthy and win something. Even a shortened season title with an asterisk: we take those here in Cleveland.
 
:conf (2):

I.......

Don't think @CATS44 post had anything to do with what you said or at least anything i could find. So calling him out 4 times in a post isn't cool.

Forum related there is absolutely a non 0 chance the season doesn't even get started. And i know ive been playing gloom and doom but i would be shocked if this season finishes through the playoffs.

Try :

Cats
"As for the crack that the sky is not falling...it already has. Just ask the families and friends of the nearly 130,000 Americans who have died so far, with no end in sight."

Jup
The sky is not falling, they will finish the season, playoffs included.
 
Now when it comes to INF, we have no depth at the current moment, thats why I put Kreiger on the 60 man since he can play in the INF and OF. We should just go best talent potential for the INF positions over AAAA, but i wouldn't be surprised to see a Krieger just because of his ability to play in a lot of spots in the field.

......
Util Tyler Kreiger

If Krieger isn't invited, it will be Benson or Morris should get that spot and that would still be a good looking setup.
I understand your thoughts for adding Krieger, but I think you missed something along the way..

Already on the 40 man: Yu Chang, Christian Arroyo
Known invitee to ST2: Ernie Clement
Was still in Spring Training camp 1: Mike Freeman

I think Mike Freeman will get 1 of those remaining 11 spots. He would be depth across the infield (& OF corners)

IF the Tribe is adding more INF depth to the 60 man pool, I would suspect its guys like Rocchio, Bracho, Palacios & Delgado before its Krieger..
 
Could you imagine going into the final week or two tied for first with the Twins and both teams down to their 10th and 11th starters?

This season might come down to who does the best job of keeping their top players eligible to play and who has the best AAA players. Losing three starters for two weeks to covid at the same time would be devastating, especially considering the reduced number of games.

This caught my attention from Hoynes' latest column:

"Since teams will be able only to trade players from their 60-player pool this season, if you see teams adding their top prospects to their pool as the deadline approaches, it could be a sign that the bidding for Lindor is on."

According to Hoynes:

"A few days ago a national baseball writer told a Cleveland sports talk show that he’d been told that the Indians were going to conduct “a fire sale.”
Starting pitching depth could become a huge issue.

On the trade front

I was told that the players were informed by the union, to be expecting a fire sale on any veterans both at the deadline and in the off season as teams that are tanking (deadline) or know they will have to pare $$'s (deadline and off season) dump any and all salaries they can.
 
As always, I think there's a good chance that Paul Hoynes doesn't have a clue
Well, he was saying that "a national baseball writer" expects the Indians to have a fire sale. Hoynes never said he had any indications of that.

In good economic times the Indians' team payroll dropped from $134.4 M to $88.7 M after the 2018 season. Then they traded Bauer in 2019 and Kluber following the season in order to keep the 2020 number at $90.4 M. It seems they feel the $88-90 M area is where they can operate without signficant losses given a normal 162-game season.

But in a 60-game season with no fans they will incur "extraordinary" losses. Are they prepared to take a big hit for one season and continue as normal? Or will they be forced to conduct an earlier-and-larger-than-planned fire sale? Maybe they trade Hand and Clevinger earlier than planned and let Santana go after this season. Carrasco is due to make $12 million in 2021 and again in 2022 at age 34 and 35. He is sure to be traded unless it's clear he can't start anymore.

I will be very surprised if Lindor, Santana ($17.5 M club option), Carrasco, and Hand ($10 M club option) are on the team next April.
 
The big vulnerability as I see it is catching. The Indians only have two major league caliber catchers on their roster. In February they signed Cameron Rupp, a 31-year-old minor league lifer with nearly 300 games in the bigs. He hit .217 last year. They also invited Beau Taylor to camp, a 30-year-old with virtually no major league experience. I could see these guys on the 20-man in case Berto or Leon gets the virus or a baseball injury.

Another possibility is Kungkuan Giljeiljaw, a 26-year-old who hit .229 in AA last year. I'm sure the Tribe's announcers are praying he doesn't get brought up.

This season could come down to which teams do the best job of keeping their major league starters from getting infected and avoiding a run of infections at one position where they lack depth.

@Derek as well

Personally i think you both are underestimating Giljeiljaw when it comes to being a reciever as a catcher. He would have been at AAA sometime last season if he didn't have an injury. I actually place him as the guy who replaces Leon next season if he stays healthy. We didn't get him until he was older than most prospects and he also was a player who lost a season to Tommy John. Thats just how I feel at the end of the day, but I am no expert, but his numbers defensively look better than Rupp or Beau and both of those guys are stop gaps not long term pieces so if we are avoiding AAAA players may as well keep one who still has potential.
 
Well, he was saying that "a national baseball writer" expects the Indians to have a fire sale. Hoynes never said he had any indications of that.

In good economic times the Indians' team payroll dropped from $134.4 M to $88.7 M after the 2018 season. Then they traded Bauer in 2019 and Kluber following the season in order to keep the 2020 number at $90.4 M. It seems they feel the $88-90 M area is where they can operate without signficant losses given a normal 162-game season.

But in a 60-game season with no fans they will incur "extraordinary" losses. Are they prepared to take a big hit for one season and continue as normal? Or will they be forced to conduct an earlier-and-larger-than-planned fire sale? Maybe they trade Hand and Clevinger earlier than planned and let Santana go after this season. Carrasco is due to make $12 million in 2021 and again in 2022 at age 34 and 35. He is sure to be traded unless it's clear he can't start anymore.

I will be very surprised if Lindor, Santana ($17.5 M club option), Carrasco, and Hand ($10 M club option) are on the team next April.
Some of that salary is going for sure.

I think Santana and Hand options are a no brainers. If they want some kind of return on them, they are trade candidates at the deadline if the Indians aren't absolutely in the thick of things.
 
@Derek as well

Personally i think you both are underestimating Giljeiljaw when it comes to being a reciever as a catcher. He would have been at AAA sometime last season if he didn't have an injury. I actually place him as the guy who replaces Leon next season if he stays healthy. We didn't get him until he was older than most prospects and he also was a player who lost a season to Tommy John. Thats just how I feel at the end of the day, but I am no expert, but his numbers defensively look better than Rupp or Beau and both of those guys are stop gaps not long term pieces so if we are avoiding AAAA players may as well keep one who still has potential.
How did I underestimate him? I’m the only one taking the time to correctly spell his name!
 

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-13: "Backup Bash Brothers"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:11: "Clipping Bucks."
Top