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The 2020 Cleveland Indians

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I was told that the players were informed by the union, to be expecting a fire sale on any veterans both at the deadline and in the off season as teams that are tanking (deadline) or know they will have to pare $$'s (deadline and off season) dump any and all salaries they can.
If there are a lot of fire sales going on it will really inhibit the Indians ability to trade Lindor and Carrasco and get a good return. There could be a lot of sellers and few buyers.

Hand and Santana's contracts expire at the end of this season, freeing up $27.5 million next year. If they trade Lindor that lops off another $17.5. So we're talking a $45 M payroll deduction with the departures of those three players. That should put them on solid financial footing for 2021 even if they can't move Carrasco.

They might be able to negotiate a more team-friendly contract with Santana after declining the team option.
 
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I will be very surprised if Lindor, Santana ($17.5 M club option), Carrasco, and Hand ($10 M club option) are on the team next April.
I would be STUNNED if all 4 were gone. IIRC Cookie has a full no trade now & he signed that latest extension to avoid hearing his name in the trade rumor mill.

Even if teams (like CLE) wanted to conduct a fire sale, there has to be someone out there to buy. I think that will be the hang up.. Too many teams looking to par back/ trim down & not enough teams willing to take on guaranteed money.
 
Well, he was saying that "a national baseball writer" expects the Indians to have a fire sale. Hoynes never said he had any indications of that.

In good economic times the Indians' team payroll dropped from $134.4 M to $88.7 M after the 2018 season. Then they traded Bauer in 2019 and Kluber following the season in order to keep the 2020 number at $90.4 M. It seems they feel the $88-90 M area is where they can operate without signficant losses given a normal 162-game season.

But in a 60-game season with no fans they will incur "extraordinary" losses. Are they prepared to take a big hit for one season and continue as normal? Or will they be forced to conduct an earlier-and-larger-than-planned fire sale? Maybe they trade Hand and Clevinger earlier than planned and let Santana go after this season. Carrasco is due to make $12 million in 2021 and again in 2022 at age 34 and 35. He is sure to be traded unless it's clear he can't start anymore.

I will be very surprised if Lindor, Santana ($17.5 M club option), Carrasco, and Hand ($10 M club option) are on the team next April.

Carrasco will not be traded no matter what. He resigned twice with the team and will retire as an Indian and I know the FO is going to honor that wish.

Now for the other guys, if you look at our 21 roster, it should actually be a better roster than in 20, we only lose Hernandez and Oliver Perez). So we will be a playoff bound team if we keep those guys. We won't be a playoff contender without those guys currently with projections. Can someone step up into the closers role and do we have another LHP from the bullpen? Can Santana be replaced by Bauer or Bradley? Do we have someone ready at SS to replace Lindor?

Hand could be replaced i feel in due time with like Karinchak if we can prove he can pitch consistently. We don't have lefties in the bullpen in 21, so guys like Nelson, Gose etc will need to step into the roles. Santana in my mind is superior to Bauers and Bradley at 1B, if we are a contender in 21, I think we keep Santana. Lindor, I dont think we have a replacement just yet. Freeman may be ready, but he does translate to 2B more than SS. Clement translate to an utility guy. With 2B going to be open next season, Freeman or Clement will end up in that spot, not at SS.

I get the Indians may not get any money this season, but to compromise and to take a playoff team out of the playoffs makes no sense from the financial or logical standpoint.

If we trade or let go of Carrasco, Hand, Lindor, Santana, then we are going to have to trade Clev and JRam as well since we aren't going to be in the playoffs next season, so we would have to capitalize on getting assets for 22. I just dont see that happening. I have a hunch we will keep this team together for one more season regardless if we lost money this season.
 
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How did I underestimate him? I’m the only one taking the time to correctly spell his name!

Well i did copy and paste his name from Wham lol its a bit harder from my phone to post

Why i said that was, Giljegiljaw I feel is a better talent than Rupp or Beau and should be ahead of both guys when it comes to the 60 man rather than behind them. I know both Rupp and Beau played in the majors before, but neither I think are as good potentially as Giljegiljaw. Its not a big deal at the end of the day, I just personally feel he needs to be on it cause he should have the chance to replace Leon in 21.
 
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I would be STUNNED if all 4 were gone. IIRC Cookie has a full no trade now & he signed that latest extension to avoid hearing his name in the trade rumor mill.

Even if teams (like CLE) wanted to conduct a fire sale, there has to be someone out there to buy. I think that will be the hang up.. Too many teams looking to par back/ trim down & not enough teams willing to take on guaranteed money.
I think it is a no brainer that Santana and Hand are gone. Carrasco is the least likely to go. But Lindor has a real high probability of being traded.

When you look at what his arbitration $$$'s could be and a possible lockout after the '21 season, I don't see anyway he is on the team opening day '21. It could be after this season plays out versus at the deadline, but I don't see it any later than that.
 
Carrasco will not be traded no matter what. He resigned twice with the team and will retire as an Indian and I know the FO is going to honor that wish.

Now for the other guys, if you look at our 21 roster, it should actually be a better roster than in 20, we only lose Hernandez and Oliver Perez). So we will be a playoff bound team if we keep those guys. We won't be a playoff contender without those guys currently with projections. Can someone step up into the closers role and do we have another LHP from the bullpen? Can Santana be replaced by Bauer or Bradley? Do we have someone ready at SS to replace Lindor?

Hand could be replaced i feel in due time with like Karinchak if we can prove he can pitch consistently. We don't have lefties in the bullpen in 21, so guys like Nelson, Gose etc will need to step into the roles. Santana in my mind is superior to Bauers and Bradley at 1B, if we are a contender in 21, I think we keep Santana. Lindor, I dont think we have a replacement just yet. Freeman may be ready, but he does translate to 2B more than SS. Clement translate to an utility guy. With 2B going to be open next season, Freeman or Clement will end up in that spot, not at SS.

I get the Indians may not get any money this season, but to compromise and to take a playoff team out of the playoffs makes no sense from the financial or logical standpoint.

If we trade or let go of Carrasco, Hand, Lindor, Santana, then we are going to have to trade Clev and JRam as well since we aren't going to be in the playoffs next season, so we would have to capitalize on getting assets for 22. I just dont see that happening. I have a hunch we will keep this team together for one more season regardless if we lost money this season.
When it is a choice between a possible playoff team and a known $$$ shortfall, the ownership has shown they deal in knowns more than probables.
 
Francona's Indians teams have historically started very slow, and this year that would be a death sentence. It may not be popular, but it is realistic to envision the Indians out of contention after the first month. And given this season is nine weeks, if you are tooo far out after a month, the economics say you have to cut bait rather than fish.
 
Francona's Indians teams have historically started very slow, and this year that would be a death sentence. It may not be popular, but it is realistic to envision the Indians out of contention after the first month. And given this season is nine weeks, if you are tooo far out after a month, the economics say you have to cut bait rather than fish.
I don’t think that is realistic, or rather not likely based off what we know. It’s obviously a possibility because it’s baseball.

Tito’s teams start off slow because he understands the difference between a marathon and a sprint.

He’s shown himself to be quite apt at managing down the stretch and in the playoffs, which is what this entire season is.
 
When it is a choice between a possible playoff team and a known $$$ shortfall, the ownership has shown they deal in knowns more than probables.

Maybe so, but honestly if we make the playoffs/go really far in them, I dont see Antonetti allowing them to lose legit players when they would have another legit chance to repeat. Now that being said, we won't be able to bring in anyone in free agency, so we will lose Hernandez and O Perez in that sense, but to cut players who are playing well and part of the core of this team cause of money. If Hand, Santana etc have bad seasons then yeah they will be let go, but if Santana and Hand are at a high level then we keep them.
 
Sorry Q, wrote my post before I got down to yours. But even after I read your post, I am not sure that I would revise anything I put in mine. So if you don't think it is fair game for me to respond in the way I did, I am more than happy to avoid it, as one of the points of my post was that it had no place here.

Here's the thing -- there is a general, hotly disputed point society-wide about whether or not the severity of the coronavirus justifies general mask-wearing and other prophylactic measures, including social distancing. People get very invested in those discussions, and they can get nasty. I do not want to have that general "individual freedom v. safety/consideration for others" debate in here. That includes people trying to slip points related to that in baseball discussions. Because that stuff will inevitably start a tit for tat that will get out of hand.
 
Unless Hand has a poor 2020 showing, I don't think they would outright decline his 2020 option. I'm sure plenty of teams would have interest in one of the better lefty relievers in baseball for 1 yr $10m
 
Just thinking, the last few spots will tell how Indians MAY proceed come Aug 31. Any player traded must be on 60 player Pool and must be then placed in acquirer 60 player Pool too. You can’t also just dump someone like Espino from the 60 player Pool, other than injury.

We are now at 10 players and need 3 catchers as one must be on taxi traveling squad leaving 2 to work out pitchers . If fire sale is possible, you need few spaces left open for new non-40 man players.

Updated players joining #Indians 60-man roster.
RHP Robert Broom
RHP Daniel Espino
RHP Ethan Hankins
RHP Cam Hill (NRI)
RHP Nick Sandlin
LHP Kyle Nelson

INF Ernie Clement
3B Nolan Jones
SS Tyler Freeman
OF George Valera * players are not on the current 40-man roster
 
Also another tidbit I read, if I am correct, players on the 40 don't have to be on the 60 man pool, but those players have to be paid and cannot play during the season if not added to the 60 man pool. Its possible a guy like Meija may not be in the 60 man pool.
 
I don’t think that is realistic, or rather not likely based off what we know. It’s obviously a possibility because it’s baseball.

Tito’s teams start off slow because he understands the difference between a marathon and a sprint.

He’s shown himself to be quite apt at managing down the stretch and in the playoffs, which is what this entire season is.
On the other hand, Tito's teams have often underperformed in March, April and May. Well, we skipped those months entirely so I'm expecting us to rip off 21 straight wins to open the year!
 
Rocchio is the only interesting non-inclusion for me. I'm curious if there might be travel issues? I'm not sure whether he went back to Venezuela when everything was halted.
 

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