2020 NBA Draft

All the Toppin talk reminds me of the T-Rob/Derrick Williams conversations. The player too.

The Achiuwa talk reminds me of the Perry Jones stuff tbh.

Coincidentally, I remember being high on Robinson and Williams. There is something appealing with an athletic 3/4 hybrid that can shoot with no defense. Now, I'm second guessing my Toppin fandom. Thanks!

Joe Henderson said:

All the Toppin talk reminds me of the T-Rob/Derrick Williams conversations. The player too.

The Achiuwa talk reminds me of the Perry Jones stuff tbh.

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pinoycavsfan said:

Coincidentally, I remember being high on Robinson and Williams. There is something appealing with an athletic 3/4 hybrid that can shoot with no defense. Now, I'm second guessing my Toppin fandom. Thanks!

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The draft is a crap shot with a lot of negative reactions to players. Just look at all the money teams spend on scouting and often with poor results. Green on the Warriors
was too small for a PF believe he went in the second round and the cavs passed on him. Also remember P J Tucker was thought to be too small to be recruited by a lot of college teams. Jimmy V tells about scouting a small center and said the kid will never make it. Forget about him as a college player. Jimmy said and I was right about him. I think he became a doctor or something---Dr J that is.

Think the best strategy for the cavs with regards to the draft for years to come is to hire the best scouts and draft people in the NBA. Go by results these scouts have had in the past years. Pay them whatever it takes . You will save money in the long run. Will they be always right-- no. But your odds will be good. Don't know who is the best- may be it's the San Antonio's draft department not sure.

wildfan said:

Think the best strategy for the cavs with regards to the draft for years to come is to hire the best scouts and draft people in the NBA. Go by results these scouts have had in the past years. Pay them whatever it takes . You will save money in the long run. Will they be always right-- no. But your odds will be good. Don't know who is the best- may be it's the San Antonio's draft department not sure.

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Think Spurs recruiters benefit from excellent player development. Denver have the best I think, lakers are pretty good too

Perry Jones III is an RCF draft legend

cabs said:

Toppin is a terrible fit because he can’t defend, he’s older and wouldn’t start for ages because Kevin Love is here. Makes no sense.

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He's 22?

Garland is 20, Porter JR is 20, Sexton is 21.....

Yeah that makes Toppin a geriatric I guess??????

CavsFan07 said:

He's 22?

Garland is 20, Porter JR is 20, Sexton is 21.....

Yeah that makes Toppin a geriatric I guess??????

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Jamal Murray and Buddy Hield were both drafted in the 2016 draft. They just completed their 4th NBA season.

Buddy Hield was the 6th pick in the draft. Jamal Murray was the 7th pick in the draft.

Jamal Murray is the same age right now that Buddy Hield was when Hield was drafted one spot ahead of him.

Does anyone else think Derrick Williams' career would have gone differently in today's NBA? I'm not saying he'd have been a star, but I highly doubt he'd be out of the league entirely in this style where tweeners are actually valuable.

Cassity14 said:

Does anyone else think Derrick Williams' career would have gone differently in today's NBA? I'm not saying he'd have been a star, but I highly doubt he'd be out of the league entirely in this style where tweeners are actually valuable.

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Coaching ruins draft picks more than their skills does.

Cassity14 said:

Does anyone else think Derrick Williams' career would have gone differently in today's NBA? I'm not saying he'd have been a star, but I highly doubt he'd be out of the league entirely in this style where tweeners are actually valuable.

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I mean, he's 29. He came up in this era.

He's out of work in today's NBA.

His lack of shooting/defense hold him back. He honestly probably would have been fine in the 90's as a bully ball SF.

Los216 said:

Coaching ruins draft picks more than their skills does.

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I don't buy that. Guys with talent who are poorly coached almost always get chances with multiple teams and different coaches.

The Human Q-Tip said:

I don't buy that. Guys with talent who are poorly coached almost always get chances with multiple teams and different coaches.

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And bad coaching also sticks to a players reputation unfairly

Los216 said:

And bad coaching also sticks to a players reputation unfairly

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Not if they play well with a new team. The NBA is notorious for giving highly-athletic busts far more chances than they likely deserve, precisely because teams believe that they have superior coaching that can "get through" to a player who has already failed.

I'm not a huge Toppin fan but calling him Derrick Williams is a bit unfair to me.

They have some key differences in their profiles......

1. Williams had an insanely inflated scoring efficiency number that was a direct result of a FTR that was not sustainable. Toppin is an efficient scorer with what looks like a more realistically projectable mix.

2. Williams was flagged in my stuff as a significantly worse player less scoring. Toppin is -2.24, which is concerning but not alarming. Williams was -4.08. The very discernable cliff is around the -3.25/-3.50 mark. There are only 10 players in the possession era that fell below that non scoring threshold and were VORP or better players.....a success rate of around 11-12%........guys above that mark turned in to VORP or better players at about 2x the rate 21-23%. So Toppin isn't a world beater less scoring but he is in a far better bucket than Williams was.

Toppin profiles as kind of a more efficient version, plus scoring version of Kyle Kuzma.....which would be a pretty useful player to me.

I don't necessarily think he's a good fit for the Cavs but I'd have far more confidence in Toppin panning out than he becoming a D-Will esque flame out.