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2020-21 Offseason Discussion

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TxBuckeye said:
sorry, couldn't resist :p

Just don't start telling us Plutko will win the Cy Young next year
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Though he could have the most 3 inning saves in baseball next season! So maybe reliever of the year! Lol
 
EdMonix11 said:
Do you honestly think the Indians FO haven't evaluated him to see if he can be at least an average defensive CF? If the Indians thought he could play CF, they'd have given him a shot there. They literally moved him off the position full-time last year. Can he play a few innings there when the everyday CF needs a day off? Sure. But he's not an everyday guy at the position and the Indians handling of him clearly bears that out. I mean, the value of Johnson in CF is WAY higher than in RF so there's no reason to move him off unless he can't play it.

Further, not all OF positions are created equal. CF is the most important position in the OF and probably the 2nd most important defensive position in baseball behind C. Defense really matters there....



Well, considering Daniel Johnson had -19.8 UZR/150 in 33 Corner OF innings this year to DeShields' -5.6 in CF.... umm yeah, he could've been, and would've been, much worse defensively in CF.

And who's to say Johnson would've even been better offensively? I like him enough as a prospect but you're acting like he's some can't miss top 20 prospect and he's not. There's some real concern about his pitch recognition and making enough contact to access his plus raw power. There's a very good chance he's a platoon corner OF if he ever sticks in the MLB.



Not even the most analytically inclined and progressive organizations would do a CF platoon. Not sure why the Indians would..... The only way it would ever work is if both guys are both plus defenders.
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I agree with pretty much everything you are saying other than I think you are underestimating Johnson in CF, but why have an average CF when he is better in the corners. Also we came into the season with Mercado, DeShields, Zimmer etc all being solid in CF. Johnson doesn't scare me in CF so if they decide to have him out there then I am not worried, but I dont see him being in that position normally at all.
 
We've got $21 million committed between Jose and Cookie. Perez and Hedges (if both are kept) add 9. Wittgren and Naquin are 2nd year arby who both made about 1.5 last year, so say 4 mil for the duo on the high side. That's 34 million for 6 players. If Santana and Hand walk the other 20 on the MLB roster will be minimum salary guys, which would put our 26 man total around 50 million. I have to think they can go to 75 or so without causing too much angina in the Dolan household.
 
EdMonix11 said:
Do you honestly think the Indians FO haven't evaluated him to see if he can be at least an average defensive CF? If the Indians thought he could play CF, they'd have given him a shot there. They literally moved him off the position full-time last year. Can he play a few innings there when the everyday CF needs a day off? Sure. But he's not an everyday guy at the position and the Indians handling of him clearly bears that out. I mean, the value of Johnson in CF is WAY higher than in RF so there's no reason to move him off unless he can't play it.

Further, not all OF positions are created equal. CF is the most important position in the OF and probably the 2nd most important defensive position in baseball behind C. Defense really matters there....



Well, considering Daniel Johnson had -19.8 UZR/150 in 33 Corner OF innings this year to DeShields' -5.6 in CF.... umm yeah, he could've been, and would've been, much worse defensively in CF.

And who's to say Johnson would've even been better offensively? I like him enough as a prospect but you're acting like he's some can't miss top 20 prospect and he's not. There's some real concern about his pitch recognition and making enough contact to access his plus raw power. There's a very good chance he's a platoon corner OF if he ever sticks in the MLB.



Not even the most analytically inclined and progressive organizations would do a CF platoon. Not sure why the Indians would..... The only way it would ever work is if both guys are both plus defenders.
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He's at the very least an average CFer which means at his lowest point he's as good as anyone we trotted out their this season.

"Johnson runs well enough to play center field but has spent the majority of his career in right. That's in large part because he has plus-plus arm strength that helped him rack up 11 assists in just 92 games last year. If he can't hit consistently enough to make it as a regular, his tools would make him a dynamic fourth outfielder."

"Though Johnson is at least an average defender in center field, he has spent most of his pro career in right. He has plus-plus arm strength and has recorded 25 assists in 198 career games in right field. Cleveland needs some lefty-hitting corner-outfield options, so he's in position to get big league at-bats in 2020."

There's plenty more reports that will tell you the same thing so your assumption that he cannot play CF adequately is probably wrong. I'm not touting Johnson as the next Mike Trout or anything. I just know that his tools are tantalizing and his performance thus far only encourages enthusiasm for those of us that recognize them. So right now, his worst forecast is a 4th OFer. He'd be one of the most dynamic 4th OF'ers we've ever seen if that comes to fruition.
 
I like a Mercado/Johnson platoon in center in 2021 until one of them emerges as the clear winner. If neither one does, continue with the platoon and whoever isn't playing that day becomes a pinch runner and late inning defensive replacement at one of the corners.

By 2022 Nolan Jones should be playing either first base or in the outfield. I prefer first base since he's 6'4" and has been an infielder his whole career. Ground balls would not be a new thing. If Jones is the heir apparent at first base that puts Naylor at one corner outfield spot. The other could be a Luplow/Naquin platoon.

We have options at the corner outfield spots; Naylor, Naquin, Luplow, and don't forget the pre-pandemic plan this year was to play Reyes in right field much of the time. I would be open to Johnson in right field if Mercado proves he can hit enough to play every day in center and Johnson proves he can hit enough to play a corner outfield spot.

I don't think we're in as bad a shape in the outfield as a lot of fans think, but I would love it if the Indians could trade for somebody like Clint Frazier or Miguel Andujar to DH and move Reyes to right. He wants to play the field and he might hit better if he's more involved in the game.
 
Luke Voit... Randy Arozarena... Gio Urshela... Max Muncy... When is the Tribe gonna find a hitter like this for cheap? It seems the clubs that move on in the postseason all find players like this. Instead the Tribe gets Oscar Mercado and Mike Freeman.
 
Wham with the Right Hand said:
I like a Mercado/Johnson platoon in center in 2021 until one of them emerges as the clear winner. If neither one does, continue with the platoon and whoever isn't playing that day becomes a pinch runner and late inning defensive replacement at one of the corners.

By 2022 Nolan Jones should be playing either first base or in the outfield. I prefer first base since he's 6'4" and has been an infielder his whole career. Ground balls would not be a new thing. If Jones is the heir apparent at first base that puts Naylor at one corner outfield spot. The other could be a Luplow/Naquin platoon.

We have options at the corner outfield spots; Naylor, Naquin, Luplow, and don't forget the pre-pandemic plan this year was to play Reyes in right field much of the time. I would be open to Johnson in right field if Mercado proves he can hit enough to play every day in center and Johnson proves he can hit enough to play a corner outfield spot.

I don't think we're in as bad a shape in the outfield as a lot of fans think, but I would love it if the Indians could trade for somebody like Clint Frazier or Miguel Andujar to DH and move Reyes to right. He wants to play the field and he might hit better if he's more involved in the game.
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Naylor in LF, Reyes in RF and Johnson in CF would be the worst defensive OF in the history of baseball. Let's just add probably the worst defensive infielder in baseball in Miguel Andujar to top it off! I understand wanting to add some offense but holy cow....
 
EdMonix11 said:
Naylor in LF, Reyes in RF and Johnson in CF would be the worst defensive OF in the history of baseball. Let's just add probably the worst defensive infielder in baseball in Miguel Andujar to top it off! I understand wanting to add some offense but holy cow....
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We just had one of the worst offensive outfield ever so what's the difference? I wouldn't want Reyes in right, but we might have to live with a liability if we want to start to develop a respectable offense. Just playing guy who put up a .600 Ops because they are "solid" on defense needs to stop.
 
EdMonix11 said:
Naylor in LF, Reyes in RF and Johnson in CF would be the worst defensive OF in the history of baseball. Let's just add probably the worst defensive infielder in baseball in Miguel Andujar to top it off! I understand wanting to add some offense but holy cow....
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There has been worse but you have a valid point. I am not saying I want Johnson in CF everyday but I am not scared if he subs in there.

DerekG123 said:
We just had one of the worst offensive outfield ever so what's the difference? I wouldn't want Reyes in right, but we might have to live with a liability if we want to start to develop a respectable offense. Just playing guy who put up a .600 Ops because they are "solid" on defense needs to stop.
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I dont disagree we need to upgrade the offense, but we cannot do it where we lose a lot defense either. With someone like Naylor/Reyes going to be in one of the corners CF has to stay with the best defensive guy there to offset their range.
 
EdMonix11 said:
Naylor in LF, Reyes in RF and Johnson in CF would be the worst defensive OF in the history of baseball. Let's just add probably the worst defensive infielder in baseball in Miguel Andujar to top it off! I understand wanting to add some offense but holy cow....
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Defensively in center field he’s still a plus-plus defender. He can run. With the addition of the extra guy on the roster this year (26th man), there are things you might be able to do that maybe you couldn’t in the past. - Tito Francona on Daniel Johnson, 2/1/20

I'm not thrilled with Reyes in right but he wasn't that bad when he played there in San Diego. According to Fangraphs he was involved in close to 400 plays in RF in 2018-19. He made the routine play 98.5% of the time, the "likely" play 75% (9 of 12), the "even" play 25% of the time, and the "unlikely" play 1 out of 7 times. That doesn't put him in the upper half but he's not a huge liability, either. It beats watching Naquin hit .218 and never draw a walk if that's the alternative.

As for Naylor, he looked fine to me in left field this year. Over the last two years he made the routine play in left 95.3% of the time.

In the event they move Jones to first base and Luplow can't hit right-handed pitching and Naquin continues to hit like this year rather than last I could see moving Reyes to right, especially if we end up with somebody like Frazier or Anduar to DH. With Lindor moving on we need production from the corner outfield spots to make up for what we'll lose at SS and probably 2B as well.

I'm all for outfield defense but we're losing Lindor and probably Hernandez and Santana so we need to do better than .192 from the outfield. My theory is the pitching will actually get better if they can get these guys some early leads so the pitchers don't have to worry about one bad pitch losing the game.

It's also frustrating for fans to watch a high quality pitching performance go to waste because of no offense. And the fans pay the bills.
 
Wham with the Right Hand said:
Defensively in center field he’s still a plus-plus defender. He can run. With the addition of the extra guy on the roster this year (26th man), there are things you might be able to do that maybe you couldn’t in the past. - Tito Francona on Daniel Johnson, 2/1/20

I'm not thrilled with Reyes in right but he wasn't that bad when he played there in San Diego. According to Fangraphs he was involved in close to 400 plays in RF in 2018-19. He made the routine play 98.5% of the time, the "likely" play 75% (9 of 12), the "even" play 25% of the time, and the "unlikely" play 1 out of 7 times. That doesn't put him in the upper half but he's not a huge liability, either. It beats watching Naquin hit .218 and never draw a walk if that's the alternative.

As for Naylor, he looked fine to me in left field this year. Over the last two years he made the routine play in left 95.3% of the time.

In the event they move Jones to first base and Luplow can't hit right-handed pitching and Naquin continues to hit like this year rather than last I could see moving Reyes to right, especially if we end up with somebody like Frazier or Anduar to DH. With Lindor moving on we need production from the corner outfield spots to make up for what we'll lose at SS and probably 2B as well.

I'm all for outfield defense but we're losing Lindor and probably Hernandez and Santana so we need to do better than .192 from the outfield. My theory is the pitching will actually get better if they can get these guys some early leads so the pitchers don't have to worry about one bad pitch losing the game.

It's also frustrating for fans to watch a high quality pitching performance go to waste because of no offense. And the fans pay the bills.
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Couple of things off the cuff:
1. I don't think Naquin will be tendered an offer.
2. Naylor's defense in LF vastly improved with his conditioning so your numbers are probably skewed a bit.
3. I do not think Reyes will see much time in the OF, but I could be wrong.
4. If another LF/1B is acquired then Bauers and Bradley are f'd. They might be f'd anyway if Jones proves ready.
5. It's difficult to estimate what the roster will look like without knowing what the Lindor trade will net them.
6. I expect Chang to be handed SS duties to bridge the gap to Arias. They will not block him.
7. I expect Miller to win 2B duties. His profile is much like Hernandez's, he's just unproven at the highest level.
 
DerekG123 said:
We just had one of the worst offensive outfield ever so what's the difference? I wouldn't want Reyes in right, but we might have to live with a liability if we want to start to develop a respectable offense. Just playing guy who put up a .600 Ops because they are "solid" on defense needs to stop.
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You're kinda helping me make my point here....

Honestly, what do think the Indians front office thinks of Johnson at CF when four guys with a respective .348, .603, .534 and .628 OPS play over him this year? Four guys got a shot at CF this year and he was not one of them.

The job is wide open and nobody is blocking him and he still didn't get a sniff. Why is that? I mean, people on here are now telling me he's a plus-plus defender in CF and you're saying he'd provide more than a .600 OPS. Like, is the Indians front office that incompetent then?

Hell, the Indians front office even went outside the organization to add another LHH OFer in the Clevinger trade instead of giving him another shot at a corner OF spot.

I like Johnson as a prospect. I really do. I like him as a platoon corner OF. Seeing what the A's and Rays have done with versatile platoon players of late, there's nothing wrong with that projection. But as of right now, I just think this is a classic case of fans falling in love with a prospect that just isn't as highly thought of by his organization.
 
EdMonix11 said:
You're kinda helping me make my point here....

Honestly, what do think the Indians front office thinks of Johnson at CF when four guys with a respective .348, .603, .534 and .628 OPS play over him this year? Four guys got a shot at CF this year and he was not one of them.

The job is wide open and nobody is blocking him and he still didn't get a sniff. Why is that? I mean, people on here are now telling me he's a plus-plus defender in CF and you're saying he'd provide more than a .600 OPS. Like, is the Indians front office that incompetent then?

Hell, the Indians front office even went outside the organization to add another LHH OFer in the Clevinger trade instead of giving him another shot at a corner OF spot.

I like Johnson as a prospect. I really do. I like him as a platoon corner OF. Seeing what the A's and Rays have done with versatile platoon players of late, there's nothing wrong with that projection. But as of right now, I just think this is a classic case of fans falling in love with a prospect that just isn't as highly thought of by his organization.
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Personally I am not as high on Johnson as some people here. He looks like a solid enough RF defensively overall and his numbers from 19 say he has potential.

In the real world, Johnson is not a true CF. Yes he can play there, but do I want him as the regular there? No I don't. His skill set has RF written all over it. Now if he makes the roster, yes he will get some innings in LF and CF since we never know when injuries and whatnot happen, but he isnt our future CF. He is a backup CF/spot starter not the everyday guy. He's not going to be anything amazing in CF, but he isnt horrible just not the guy especially on a pitching first team.

Also I feel like people are writing off Bauers before they actually see him in spring. From what I can tell of him from comments, they likely reworked some of his swing and his attitude towards baseball.

We now have Naylor, Bradley and Bauers to compete for 1B, all young guys with potential. Plus Bauers and Naylor can play some OF.
 
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