Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

natedagg said:

Baker deserves to start being judged on his body of work after 8 games. He just looked like shit, and Team KEVSKI was outcoached unfortunately. On to the next one...
Cinci is the first team that we will have played twice. That’s a big deal for KEVSKI and Baker of course. I am excited to see how it goes, and I expect to see improvements in all 3 phases of the game.
We need Teller and Chubb back too. This will make a world of difference, getting back a guard who was playing at an all pro level and an RB who is one of the best pure rushers in the game. It will also allow us to play Hunt and Chubb on the field at the same time, which is something I think we all love.

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The idea that we can’t judge Baker without Teller or Chubb is completely ridiculous. Hunt isn’t Chubb, but he‘s more than capable of handling the load at a high level for a few games. It’s not like we’re replacing Chubb with a guy that‘s never played. Hunt could start on the majority of teams in the league. Teller has looked great, but again, Hubbard isn’t a complete stiff and has performed well. The rest of the line is good. Missing Teller shouldn’t cause Baker to suck.

If Baker needs All-Pro talent at every position to simply look adequate, let’s face it, he’s not a via NFL QB. We’ve seen marginally talented QB’s perform better with far less. Any good NFL QB should be able to make something happen with this roster. I’m not talking elite QB, I’m just saying good.

Out of the Rafters at the Q said:

Also... just off the past few drafts.

Mahomes was the "second best QB" in his class.

Watson was the "third best QB" in his class.

Josh Allen was the "third best QB" in his class.

Lamar Jackson was the "fifth best QB" in his class.

And now Herbert was the "third best QB" in his class.

Los saying that the Browns trading up to take the "third of fourth best QB in the class" is just dumb. If you think a guy can be the guy, you don't care how many other guys were taken by other teams ahead of him.

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It will be interesting to see, but I’ve alluded to this before. Maybe what we’re seeing is a guy like Baker maxed out his development in college, won all the awards, became the #1 pick, and had nowhere else to grow mentally or physically as a player.

Baker was throwing to 1st Round WR in CeeDee Lamb, Marquises Brown and had Joe Mixon for two seasons. There were other skill Guys drafted over that time like Sterling Shepard, Mark Andrews, Dede Westbrook, Samaje Perine, and a number of OL. He came from an offense that has now produced two Heisman winners, two #1 picks, and a 2nd round QB over the past three years.

Most of the guys Mahomes, Watson, Allen, Jackson, and Herbert with are probably selling cars, insurance, or will be soon. I still think when evaluating QBs teams really need to start focusing more on the level of talent surrounding them and determining if the QB is performing well because of the talent around him or if he’s actually elevating the play of his teammates.

Bob_The_Cat said:

It will be interesting to see, but I’ve alluded to this before. Maybe what we’re seeing is a guy like Baker maxed out his development in college, won all the awards, became the #1 pick, and had nowhere else to grow mentally or physically as a player.

Baker was throwing to 1st Round WR in CeeDee Lamb, Marquises Brown and had Joe Mixon for two seasons. He came from an offense that has now produced two Heisman winners, two #1 picks, and a 2nd round QB over the past three years.

Most of the guys Mahomes, Watson, Allen, Jackson, and Herbert with are probably selling cars, insurance, or will be soon. I still think when evaluating QBs teams really need to start focusing more on the level of talent surrounding them and determining if the QB is performing well because of the talent around him or if he’s actually elevating the play of his teammates.

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I could've sworn one of the positives with Baker was his ability to elevate the play of his teammates. Am I tripping?

Los216 said:

I could've sworn one of the positives with Baker was his ability to elevate the play of his teammates. Am I tripping?

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Out of the Rafters at the Q said:

Also... just off the past few drafts.

Mahomes was the "second best QB" in his class.

Watson was the "third best QB" in his class.

Josh Allen was the "third best QB" in his class.

Lamar Jackson was the "fifth best QB" in his class.

And now Herbert was the "third best QB" in his class.

Los saying that the Browns trading up to take the "third of fourth best QB in the class" is just dumb. If you think a guy can be the guy, you don't care how many other guys were taken by other teams ahead of him.

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As I've mentioned before, we're also now a situation where a rookie QB could realistically come in and succeed. That absolutely has not been the case for most of the past twenty years. We've got two great receivers (and I think Odell still has elite potential), two elite RBs, a great TE room and a quality offensive line. Any QB worth a damn could step in here and play at a high level. That's what makes Baker's struggles so concerning.

The thing that I dont get about Baker apologists (i hate using that term) is that the reason he gets critiqued are basic things, not his inability to grasp a system. If he wasn't effective rolling left, or had a bad "fake" handoff, that would be one thing that deserves more time. His biggest issues, to me, are in inability to see defensive players when he throws, his inability to see his receivers running open, and his fear (real, or perceived) response when he feels pressure. Those aren't things that are dependent on a specific coach, or system, or reps. Vision is something he should've been working on for as long as he's played the position. He shouldve done it with Lincoln, Hue, Greggggg, Freddie and Stefanski. Shouldve done it at Texas Tech, Oklahoma and every off-season since. Why hasn't he improved on that yet? Its like a basketball player that can't dribble with his left.

I can't remember who said this, might've been Rex Ryan.

Baker Mayfield is a frontrunner. When frontrunners get exposed it gets ugly.

adam81king said:

The thing that I dont get about Baker apologists (i hate using that term) is that the reason he gets critiqued are basic things, not his inability to grasp a system. If he wasn't effective rolling left, or had a bad "fake" handoff, that would be one thing that deserves more time. His biggest issues, to me, are in inability to see defensive players when he throws, his inability to see his receivers running open, and his fear (real, or perceived) response when he feels pressure. Those aren't things that are dependent on a specific coach, or system, or reps. Vision is something he should've been working on for as long as he's played the position. He shouldve done it with Lincoln, Hue, Greggggg, Freddie and Stefanski. Shouldve done it at Texas Tech, Oklahoma and every off-season since. Why hasn't he improved on that yet? Its like a basketball player that can't dribble with his left.

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I rewatched the Steelers game on the All-22 expecting to see a bunch of horrible and inept QB play out of Mayfield.

Candidly, it wasn't quite as bad as I expected it to be. His movement in the pocket was actually a lot better than I thought it was watching it live.

The biggest issue I continue to see, and maybe the injury ribs were especially a factor this past week, is just that Baker simply does not keep his eyes up when he is pressured or when he believes he's going to be pressured.

If he feels pressure, whether it's actually there or not, his eyes immediately drop and start frantically looking for where the hit is coming from so he can try and avoid it.

Even if he steps up in the pocket or slides side-to-side in the pocket (both of which he actually did against Pittsburgh), he's just not comfortable bringing his eyes back up to make reads unless he is able to scramble completely out of the pocket.

Unfortunately, he's not a plus athlete like Kyler Murray or Russell Wilson or Josh Allen and so he isn't able to escape pressure from the pocket that easily.

Baker wasn't as bad at maneuvering the pocket as I thought, but it won't ever matter if he doesn't lift his eyes against pressure/perceived pressure because he's not a good enough athlete to only throw passes once he's confident that he has escaped.

Los216 said:

I can't remember who said this, might've been Rex Ryan.

Baker Mayfield is a frontrunner. When frontrunners get exposed it gets ugly.

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I do not understand what that means — can you explain it?

WellYouNeednt said:

I do not understand what that means — can you explain it?

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When things are going well and you're winning, you play well. Usually *because* you have the confidence that you're winning. When things aren't going well, or you have to mount a comeback, the wheels come completely off.

red. said:

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Jesus.

Been thinking a lot about Baker's rookie season this week. Decided to watch this video, just to refresh my memory a little:


Notice something unusual? Yep. Get a load of how many of those successful throws came from inside the pocket. Then, watch his eyes. I'd say he's staring down his receiver and first-read, maybe 20% of the time. The rest is systematic. Within the flow of the offense. He checks his reads; 1, 2, 3 and then rips it.

His body language just looks different also. He's cool, composed, collected. I know this is just a highlights pack, but there seems a clear dichotomy between his approach in this footage what we've seen this season.

CavsSimmy said:

Been thinking a lot about Baker's rookie season this week. Decided to watch this video, just to refresh my memory a little:


Notice something unusual? Yep. Get a load of how many of those successful throws came from inside the pocket. Then, watch his eyes. I'd say he's staring down his receiver and first-read, maybe 20% of the time. The rest is systematic. Within the flow of the offense. He checks his reads; 1, 2, 3 and then rips it.

His body language just looks different also. He's cool, composed, collected. I know this is just a highlights pack, but there seems a clear dichotomy between his approach in this footage what we've seen this season.

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Yeah, the beating he got last year has him gun shy.

I don't know how, but he needs to break that habit.

That is part one of two things he needs to fix.

I said after the Baltimore game that I did not think this off-season was the time for Van Pelt to change Baker's footwork. Just another thing to potentially fuck him up. It certainly hasn't improved him.