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2020-21 Offseason Discussion

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They said retool and not rebuild and trading JRam sends a rebuild not a retool scenario in my mind. Their offense was atrocious in 20, and they are parting with Hernandez, Lindor etc who actually produced. Moving JRam would put the offense in an even worse spot overall and makes it hard to believe we are retooling if we have no proven hitters at all on the roster (outside of maybe Reyes?). I just dont see us going anywhere offensively if we get rid of JRam too.

If we didn't have a starting rotation like we did, I would 100% say JRam would be gone, but with the fact we have a top 5 potential rotation, we need bats to compete especially since the central will not be weak whatsoever.

Trading Ramirez for a bunch of low level prospects would constitute a rebuild. The same goes for the Lindor trade and the possible Carrasco trade. I don't believe that to be the direction they choose for the exact reason you stated.........the starting rotation.

Reread my post you quoted again if you need to. I'm all for keeping Ramirez until he retires or is unproductive, but it would be counterproductive to trade him in a year or 2 considering the current state of affairs instead of now. You need no better example than Lindor or Kluber. I've repeatedly hashed out the haul of talent that I think could be brought in so I'm not going to go through that again. Imagine how different things my look had they traded Kluber and Lindor a year sooner when many of us thought they should. What would we have lost? We haven't won the division in 3yrs. We haven't won a WS in 72 yrs. Instead of trading a healthy, top 5 SP in all of baseball we traded one who missed significant time with injury and underperformance. Instead of trading the best SS in all of baseball with 2 yrs of control remaining, we're trading the best SS in baseball after a shortened season that didn't see him perform at his normal standards and now he's a 1 yr rental unless you can afford to extend him. Those decisions hurt the overall health of this organization IMO. Conversely, trading Clevinger has likely helped this team. Not because he ended up injured, but because he brought in a basket full of talent. We now have Quantrill, Naylor, Arias, Cantillo, and Hedges. The only thing "proven" is that this team isn't going to win jackshit if it continues holding onto good players too long that they know they cannot keep.
 
Totally different take here folks. I see that Hunter Renfroe is now a FA. Would it be worth giving DeShields and Naquin's money to him if possible? He's not a bad player at all and will obviously be affordable.

It also appears that Jesus Aguilar may be squeezed out of Miami. He bounced back fairly nicely last season and could provide another bat like Reyes' on the cheap. That would allow Naylor to man LF with Luplow protecting him against tuff LHP.

Having Ramirez, Reyes, Aguilar, and Renfroe in the lineup is a lot of power. Could get real windy in Cleveland too, but $6-7M could get you 60+ HR to go along with Ramirez's and Reyes' 60+ HR. I'd enjoy watching that and that might attract some fans too. IDK.
 
There is a big difference between Ramirez and Lindor, Bauer, and Clevinger.

Ramirez is locked into known cost control, and at great value relative to the remainder of his contract. There are no ARB years and unknowns as there were with Lindor, Bauer, and Clevinger.

It wasn’t just replenishing young talent or getting a return for a player who will leave when their contact is up that caused the trades of Lindor, Bauer, and Clevinger.

It was also the economics of having ALL of them on the roster at the same time with escalating Arbritation salaries while also having Hand and Santana’s high salaries.

When Lindor is moved and all five of those guys cleared from the books in the last 18 months, there is plenty of room for Dolan to pay Jose’s modest salary and reap whatever benefits there are to his production affecting the competitive outlook of the next 2-3 years.

Simply put, while we may think it’s wise to cash in on the kind of return José might bring, the team owners no longer need to clear that salary. They’ve already purged so much and they may decide they want at least a professional impact hitter around to give the team identity not completely bottom out.

But comparing the timeline of when it made the most sense to trade Lindor or some of these other guys just doesn’t apply to Jose from an economic standpoint because of how much had already been cleared from the books and his lack of ARB years prior to FA. Dolan may very well just let him ride out his deal until it expires.
 
I would still dangle Ramirez in trades this offseason. COVID likely means no appreciable ticket sales to lose in 2021 so the short term impact in loss of interest by fans won't cost much revenue. I dont think they have the offense with or without him to be relevant and will need an expanded post-season to get in the playoffs. Time to bite the bullet for a year or two and try to find some legit future major league bats because guys like Josh Naylor don't do enough unless they are about your 7th best hitter.
 
I would still dangle Ramirez in trades this offseason. COVID likely means no appreciable ticket sales to lose in 2021 so the short term impact in loss of interest by fans won't cost much revenue. I dont think they have the offense with or without him to be relevant and will need an expanded post-season to get in the playoffs. Time to bite the bullet for a year or two and try to find some legit future major league bats because guys like Josh Naylor don't do enough unless they are about your 7th best hitter.

I fully expect fans to be back in 2021. Maybe not full capacity, but they'll be back.

And while I don't think it's wise for teams to make moves based on fans, trading letting go of Lindor/Ramirez/Santana in one offseason would be a big yikes.
 
I would still dangle Ramirez in trades this offseason. COVID likely means no appreciable ticket sales to lose in 2021 so the short term impact in loss of interest by fans won't cost much revenue. I dont think they have the offense with or without him to be relevant and will need an expanded post-season to get in the playoffs. Time to bite the bullet for a year or two and try to find some legit future major league bats because guys like Josh Naylor don't do enough unless they are about your 7th best hitter.
7th, 8th and 9th hitters for the 2020 season for the Tribe routinely included Oscar Mercado, Roberto Perez and Delino DeShields.. not exactly the bottom third of "Murderer's Row"...

Contrast that with Manny Ramirez, Sanday Alomar Jr and Jim Thome hitting 7, 8 and 9, respectively in 1994..

More than just a bit of a difference.. These kinds of hitters come along infrequently... but NEVER come along if the front office of the team is concerned if Jake Bauers or Bobby Bradley are given a chance first.. The three guys who have the most value.. will help the club win more games than they lose.. A five hundred club of uninteresting players who are chomping at the bit to leave via free agency.. isn't going to draw flies if they were covered in shit.. The time for moves.. is now..
 
In regards to dealing Carrasco..

I would HOPE that if he is traded, it has his complete blessing. He made a commitment to us and of all the players we mention, he actually is the only one who seems sincere in his appreciation and desire to be an Indian.. If he tells them he wants to stay and they trade him anyway.. Gonna make me mumble some shitty things under my breath.
 
In regards to dealing Carrasco..

I would HOPE that if he is traded, it has his complete blessing. He made a commitment to us and of all the players we mention, he actually is the only one who seems sincere in his appreciation and desire to be an Indian.. If he tells them he wants to stay and they trade him anyway.. Gonna make me mumble some shitty things under my breath.
so i think you hit the nail on the head. 1) i dont think the indians are going to trade him, but 2) even if they do decide to trade him they are only going to trade him to a team he wants to play on. I think the talk about his ability to veto a trade is irrelevant
 
so i think you hit the nail on the head. 1) i dont think the indians are going to trade him, but 2) even if they do decide to trade him they are only going to trade him to a team he wants to play on. I think the talk about his ability to veto a trade is irrelevant
Agree with this...entirely..
 
I fully expect fans to be back in 2021. Maybe not full capacity, but they'll be back.
Free COVID Vaccination Night will bring back the fans in droves.

They better not spend it all in one place.... this may change their free agency plans

Doubt it, they still have millions of salary left to dump. They probably need that 100k to make stadium staff payroll.
 

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