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Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

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Randolphkeys said:
Baker is never going to have the elusiveness that a guy like Wilson or Murray possess. There are plenty of young QBs right now who get to buy their processing ability more time by using their legs. That's not Baker. "Fair" or not, he needs to understand his rollouts and scrambles should end in a pass, not breaking off a positive run. He therefore just has to become better at reading the defense and anticipating the passing windows. He has to be faster than a Lamar Jackson or a Josh Allen because he isn't that type of runner.

Some posters jump to "get rid of Baker for a guy who can do it all." Some posters jump to "Don't blame Baker for being Baker." Unfortunately, neither answer is going to get the Browns to a meaningful playoff run. He has to be better in his weaknesses that are indeed under his power to improve.
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100% agree. But I see huge improvement through the year, I see the potential. I also see the foot work issues and the lack of accuracy about 30% of the time. I think the footwork and accuracy can be worked on, but I don't think he is ever as accurate as Brees.. but Brees didn't have a 70% season until year 10, in fact, he was only above 65% once in his first 9 years.

Like I said, Mahommes has ruined how we evaluate QB's. Brady and Wilson won SB early BEFORE they became all time greats because of defense and running game. I just think we are way too harsh on Baker who is in his 3rd year and his 4th offense.
 
People are being too quick to anoint Wilson as an All Time Great. An excellent QB, yes.

Of those playing right now only Brady is currently an All Time Great. People will look back and say they enjoyed watching Aaron Rodgers play. Russell Wilson is admirable. Brees is a certain first ballot HOFer who you could argue has underdelivered in terms of championships.

Obviously if Patrick Mahomes keeps on his current trajectory he'll be a transcendent talent who will redefine what is possible at his position.
 
Malacogary said:
People are being too quick to anoint Wilson as an All Time Great. An excellent QB, yes.

Of those playing right now only Brady is currently an All Time Great. People will look back and say they enjoyed watching Aaron Rodgers play. Russell Wilson is admirable. Brees is a certain first ballot HOFer who you could argue has underdelivered in terms of championships.

Obviously if Patrick Mahomes keeps on his current trajectory he'll be a transcendent talent who will redefine what is possible at his position.
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So Brees isn't a top 10 all time great? Rodgers?
 
Clean footwork and clean living do not bestow all time greatness. Fifty years from now he'll be in the record books but few people will eulogise about having watched Brees play in the way they would say, Dan Marino.
 
Malacogary said:
Clean footwork and clean living do not bestow all time greatness. Fifty years from now he'll be in the record books but few people will eulogise about having watched Brees play in the way they would say, Dan Marino.
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Isn't Marino an all-time great?

Like, after Brady and Montana, it's a debate. People will bring up Elway and Marino. They'll bring up Peyton. They'll bring up Favre and Rodgers. They'll bring up Brees probably right after that, unless they wanted to dig for someone like Aikman. That puts both Brees and Rodgers in the top 8. Then you'll get someone go "Yeah, but what about *insert old-timer here*!" (in this area, it'd be Otto Graham). That leads to other names of old-timers like Unitas and Namath. Travel a little east and someone will mention Bradshaw. Travel North and someone will bring up Bart Starr. Go south and someone will bring up Sammy Baugh. But none of them truly can compete with the players of the modern era.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
Isn't Marino an all-time great?

Like, after Brady and Montana, it's a debate. People will bring up Elway and Marino. They'll bring up Peyton. They'll bring up Favre and Rodgers. They'll bring up Brees probably right after that, unless they wanted to dig for someone like Aikman. That puts both Brees and Rodgers in the top 8. Then you'll get someone go "Yeah, but what about *insert old-timer here*!" (in this area, it'd be Otto Graham). That leads to other names of old-timers like Unitas and Namath. Travel a little east and someone will mention Bradshaw. Travel North and someone will bring up Bart Starr. Go south and someone will bring up Sammy Baugh. But none of them truly can compete with the players of the modern era.
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Namath doesn't even belong in the HOF, most overrated of all time

Graham is a debatable top 10, Unitas is not, he should be top 5. His numbers were insane when looking at the competition.

Brees is top10.
 
Look, they made a lot of superbowls so he gets a ton of credit for that but has anyone looked at John Elway's actual numbers?

When so many people so easily declare that he's the greatest ever then THAT'S the most overrated QB of all time.

Elway is a lot closer to Roethlisberger level than Brady or Montana level.

Elway is the ultimate RINGZZ QB. Two titles and multiple other Superbowls.

Without those, he's not even close to the other top QBs of that era, Dan Marino and Steve Young.

EDIT: Elway gets bonus points for playing in a cold weather stadium.

BTW this is why Brady is the best of all time. His primary competition, Peyton Manning and Joe Montana, played in a dome or nice weather. Put Brady in a dome for his whole career and who knows what his numbers end up looking like.
 
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I'm on a tangent but it just occurred to me that the AFC North is the toughest division to play QB in. Four cold weather outdoor stadiums. It stands alone in that regard.

Anyway continue.
 
Rich said:
I'm on a tangent but it just occurred to me that the AFC North is the toughest division to play QB in. Four cold weather outdoor stadiums. It stands alone in that regard.

Anyway continue.
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Jeff Garcia
Colt McCoy
Johnny Manziel
Baker Mayfield

We sure know how to pick em
 
Malacogary said:
People are being too quick to anoint Wilson as an All Time Great. An excellent QB, yes.

Of those playing right now only Brady is currently an All Time Great. People will look back and say they enjoyed watching Aaron Rodgers play. Russell Wilson is admirable. Brees is a certain first ballot HOFer who you could argue has underdelivered in terms of championships.

Obviously if Patrick Mahomes keeps on his current trajectory he'll be a transcendent talent who will redefine what is possible at his position.
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Don't get it twisted here. All-Time great and Greatest of All-Time are two vastly different things. For example, Joe Thomas is an All-Time great, but is he the GOAT LT? I'm sure some could make the argument to a certain extent, but I don't think so. Really, I think it's pretty safe to say that, at minimum, if you're top 30 All-Time at your position in the history of the sport, you're an All-Time great.

At this point I'd have to say Rodgers, Wilson, and Brees will all be first-ballot HOFers. Does that not make you an All-Time Great at your position? If not, I'm not really sure what does.

Wilson will have 7 Pro Bowls through 10 years and a Super Bowl ring. He had a stretch in November that might've taken him out of MVP discussion, but he's still currently on pace to put up arguably his best season to date. He's probably a terrible play call away from having two rings. There's plenty of guys in the HOF that don't have the stats or accolades Wilson currently has, and (barring good health) he still has a lot of years to build an already impressive resume. Not to mention, he seems to still be getting better as a QB.
 
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