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RCF 2021 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

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Who gets your vote?


  • Total voters
    19
Kenny Lofton will be eligible again in 2024 for induction to Cooperstown in 2025 via the Today’s Game Era Committee...with Omar's allegations, Kenny may be the next Indian to go in.
 
So if we are cool with steroids, why is Gary Sheffield getting pinched here? 500 HRs, career 907 OPS, career 140 OPS+, more walks then strikeouts. What am I missing? He was the only steroid user honest about what he did. PEDs or not, one of the most talented players in the game, with a violent swing that few others could have pulled off. Is it something off the field that I don't recall?
 
So if we are cool with steroids, why is Gary Sheffield getting pinched here? 500 HRs, career 907 OPS, career 140 OPS+, more walks then strikeouts. What am I missing? He was the only steroid user honest about what he did. PEDs or not, one of the most talented players in the game, with a violent swing that few others could have pulled off. Is it something off the field that I don't recall?
He was reputed to have a terrible temper (not quite Albert Belle level, but significant) and was a clubhouse lawyer and a bit of a malcontent, which kept him moving from team to team throughout his career.

Was the best hitter in the game at his peak and deserving of selection.

ETA. Bill James' Abstract quote following Sheff's debut campaign: "It's a strange story: Rookie hits, rookie fields, rookie can't get along."
 
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So if we are cool with steroids, why is Gary Sheffield getting pinched here? 500 HRs, career 907 OPS, career 140 OPS+, more walks then strikeouts. What am I missing? He was the only steroid user honest about what he did. PEDs or not, one of the most talented players in the game, with a violent swing that few others could have pulled off. Is it something off the field that I don't recall?
100% think Sheff should be in
 
I have zero sympathy for the roiders in baseball, and personally wouldn't vote for any of them for the HOF. MLB tried to crack down on it, but it was a mandatory subject of collective bargaining on which the union refused to make any meaningful concessions. Internal union politics meant that players who were against PED's weren't willing to take a strong stance that would have been perceived as attacking their fellow members, so they supported the MLBPA's refusal to agree to a crackdown on PED's. It was only after Congress threatened action that the union finally gave in.

http://lawreview.colorado.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/13.-85.1-Weber_Final_Web.pdf
 
Kenny Lofton will be eligible again in 2024 for induction to Cooperstown in 2025 via the Today’s Game Era Committee...with Omar's allegations, Kenny may be the next Indian to go in.
its absolutely shameful that HoF voters ignored Lofton on his first attempt and he then had to wait another 13 years to get a second attempt
 
I have zero sympathy for the roiders in baseball, and personally wouldn't vote for any of them for the HOF. MLB tried to crack down on it, but it was a mandatory subject of collective bargaining on which the union refused to make any meaningful concessions. Internal union politics meant that players who were against PED's weren't willing to take a strong stance that would have been perceived as attacking their fellow members, so they supported the MLBPA's refusal to agree to a crackdown on PED's. It was only after Congress threatened action that the union finally gave in.

http://lawreview.colorado.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/13.-85.1-Weber_Final_Web.pdf
Oh I don't have much sympathy for them, don't get me wrong, but you also can't ignore what they did. Barry Bonds turned from a contender for top 25 all time into a video game creation, numbers that probably will never be able to be matched. McGwire crushed a hallowed record and is arguably the greatest pure power hitter of all time. I just don't think we can pretend they didn't exist, that we didn't enjoy the hell out of it, and that the numbers didn't happen because they did. That's why I think one year, no real ceremony, usher in that group all at once and call it a day.
 
I have zero sympathy for the roiders in baseball, and personally wouldn't vote for any of them for the HOF. MLB tried to crack down on it, but it was a mandatory subject of collective bargaining on which the union refused to make any meaningful concessions. Internal union politics meant that players who were against PED's weren't willing to take a strong stance that would have been perceived as attacking their fellow members, so they supported the MLBPA's refusal to agree to a crackdown on PED's. It was only after Congress threatened action that the union finally gave in.

http://lawreview.colorado.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/13.-85.1-Weber_Final_Web.pdf

Josh Byrnes once told me that probably about 80% of the players took Peds. We only keep out the players that we think are PED users, but I 100% guarantee
there are PED users in the hall.

Josh would know a hell of allot more than anyone on here, and I used to talk to him 3 or 4 times a week at soccer practice or games for our kids.
 
Oh I don't have much sympathy for them, don't get me wrong, but you also can't ignore what they did. Barry Bonds turned from a contender for top 25 all time into a video game creation, numbers that probably will never be able to be matched. McGwire crushed a hallowed record and is arguably the greatest pure power hitter of all time. I just don't think we can pretend they didn't exist, that we didn't enjoy the hell out of it, and that the numbers didn't happen because they did. That's why I think one year, no real ceremony, usher in that group all at once and call it a day.

We don't have to pretend they didn't happen because they clearly did. We just acknowledge - rightly - that they were tainted by cheating, and that the cheating disqualifies them.

People obviously disagree on that - I'm just saying that refusing to honor them just means their actions were dishonorable. It doesn't mean they didn't happen.
 
Josh Byrnes once told me that probably about 80% of the players took Peds. We only keep out the players that we think are PED users, but I 100% guarantee
there are PED users in the hall.

Josh would know a hell of allot more than anyone on here, and I used to talk to him 3 or 4 times a week at soccer practice or games for our kids.

He told me that there wasn't any way to actually determine which ones were, and that his number was really just a guess.
 
He told me that there wasn't any way to actually determine which ones were, and that his number was really just a guess.

Ofcourse it was a guess, and I am curious, do you know him too or were you making a joke?

But the fact remains many players took PEDs that we never suspected. The number is really, really high and some are in the HOF.
 
We don't have to pretend they didn't happen because they clearly did. We just acknowledge - rightly - that they were tainted by cheating, and that the cheating disqualifies them.

People obviously disagree on that - I'm just saying that refusing to honor them just means their actions were dishonorable. It doesn't mean they didn't happen.

Where do you stand on Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose?
 
Where do you stand on Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose?
If you think the determination that Shoeless Joe threw a game was wrong, he goes in. If Pete did not bet on games as a player, but only as a manager, then he should go in as a player.

So it's a question of fact rather than principle or policy.
 
Ofcourse it was a guess, and I am curious, do you know him too or were you making a joke?

But the fact remains many players took PEDs that we never suspected. The number is really, really high and some are in the HOF.

1) That's classified

2) Why does that matter? There are probably are some guys who bet on games in there too. But just because you cannot catch everyone isn't a reason to ignore it when you do catch someone.
 
Oh I don't have much sympathy for them, don't get me wrong, but you also can't ignore what they did. Barry Bonds turned from a contender for top 25 all time into a video game creation, numbers that probably will never be able to be matched. McGwire crushed a hallowed record and is arguably the greatest pure power hitter of all time. I just don't think we can pretend they didn't exist, that we didn't enjoy the hell out of it, and that the numbers didn't happen because they did. That's why I think one year, no real ceremony, usher in that group all at once and call it a day.

I didn't enjoy that part of that era at all. Bunch of roided up guys playing home run derby? You can have it.
 

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