Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

Porter is having plenty of his own troubles with the Nuggets.

As my ex-mother-in-law used to say : The grass on the other side of the
fence may be greener, but eventually it turns brown too.

BigZ94 said:

Like I just said I’m not.. I’m just pointing out obvious flaws in his game. We have the worst 3 point defence in the league, part of that is due to having a 6,1 guard playing SG. So to have a successful defense he either needs to play PG, which is unlikely due to his poor basketball IQ. Or we get a big point guard like who can guard the opposing teams SG. No matter how hard Collin works and how much better offensively he gets he will get bullied and shot over by opposing shooting guards.. there’s no shame in being a Ginobli type 6th man in a championship team.

Youre basically contradicting yourself by saying he isn’t perfect (like I’m saying) but saying idiots like me and apparently you who don’t think he’s perfect are doubting him

Click to expand...

dude... i think the collin sexton you have in mind is still the rookie one who is all those things. what i hate about your line of thinking is you still insist he's a ball stopper when all metrics tell that he is not. you are counting his mistakes and ignoring the other play making things he's obviously now adapted at.

and then now you invoke defense. let me ask you, which shooting guard "bullied" sexton on defense recently?

The

ryanf said:

dude... i think the collin sexton you have in mind is still the rookie one who is all those things. what i hate about your line of thinking is you still insist he's a ball stopper when all metrics tell that he is not. you are counting his mistakes and ignoring the other play making things he's obviously now adapted at.

and then now you invoke defense. let me ask you, which shooting guard "bullied" sexton on defense recently?

Click to expand...

murray went for 50 on 22/26 shooting (something like that) Huerter scored 22 the other night on 8/14 shooting. Generally the fact that opposing teams shoot an insanely high 3pt fg against us is largely due to the size of our guys at the 1/2/3 position.

we’ve had very good defensive bigs in Drummond, Allen, Nance and McGee and we still have a bottom 5 defence. ThTs on on out gaurds and our wings

now i know you're not watching games, or at least not paying attention. sexton was not assigned to murray, okoro was. at some point stevens was assigned to him too to try to force him to shoot over length. huerter was cedi's assignment in the hawks game.

i will stop replying to you on this thread. your latest reply just proves to me you're hunting for excuses.

Regardless of Sextons size, there are not many PG/SGs that are good enough in the NBA to be the #1 option on championship team. I do think Sexton has the potential to be number 2 on a championship team, which is worth a close to max contract I today NBA. I think if you have Sexton and Allen as your number 2&3 and you get the right wing player, this team could be a playoff team year in and year out. Let’s face it unless you get lucky and draft a superstar it is hard to win in the NBA.

ryanf said:

now i know you're not watching games, or at least not paying attention. sexton was not assigned to murray, okoro was. at some point stevens was assigned to him too to try to force him to shoot over length. huerter was cedi's assignment in the hawks game.

i will stop replying to you on this thread. your latest reply just proves to me you're hunting for excuses.

Click to expand...

Some people on this board want to cling to 2 year old narratives the same way old ladies cling to their pearls. Yes Collin did fall into some old habits on the west coast losing streak but so did the entire team. They weren't practicing during that time and the they were going thru the Drummond upheaval so it's probably natural to fall back onto old habits. The Sexton I have watched for most of this season has been much improved. We can sit here and count the mistakes for all our young kids and there have been a bunch but that's part of the growing pains in the NBA esp when you are starting a bunch of 20 year old kids. Of course we would be further ahead if we were in position to draft Luka or Ja or Lamelo but unfortunately the lottery balls didn't fall our way.

I'm still very optimistic about all our young guys though. It does suck to come to this board and have our own fans be so negative. Undrafted Dean Wade at 24 years old is currently the oldest player in our starting lineup. I'm assuming the organization is more concerned about player development than wins and losses at this point or at least they should be.

cavsfan1985 said:

Regardless of Sextons size, there are not many PG/SGs that are good enough in the NBA to be the #1 option on championship team. I do think Sexton has the potential to be number 2 on a championship team, which is worth a close to max contract I today NBA. I think if you have Sexton and Allen as your number 2&3 and you get the right wing player, this team could be a playoff team year in and year out. Let’s face it unless you get lucky and draft a superstar it is hard to win in the NBA.

Click to expand...

that's true, the nba is a league of wings. steph curry needs klay and draymond. kyrie had lebron. lowry had kawhi.

cavs is obviously looking for that wing. took a swing on an undersized defensive wing in okoro. put some chips just in case windler or stevens develops into something. maybe the upcoming draft produces that wing. either way, we are a good wing away from becoming a problem in the nba for years to come.

ryanf said:

that's true, the nba is a league of wings...maybe the upcoming draft produces that wing. either way, we are a good wing away from becoming a problem in the nba for years to come.

Click to expand...

Agree with this.

As for Sexton's and Garland's defense, it is not as much of an issue when they have guys like Nance and Allen behind them to help when their man tries to muscle his way to the rim. The Cavs defense was significantly better statistically before Nance broke his hand.

As for challenging 3's, Sexton has great leaping ability and long arms for his height. Along with his quickness it makes him very capable of challenging 3's and forcing misses. However, when a guy like Paul George gets into this rhythm there is nobody who can stop him.

Yes, Jamal Murray scored 50 on the Cavs. In the playoffs last August Murray had TWO 50-point games against Utah along with a 42- and 40-point game plus a 40-point game against the Clippers. To say he scored 50 on the Cavs because our guards are 6'1" is shortsighted. Murray is 6'3". It's not his height advantage that allows him to score the way he does. It's not like he's a 6'8" guard who was posting Sexton up.

Whether Sexton is a starter or 6th man is not a big deal - it's how many minutes he plays. To be fair, I could see Sexton playing a Jordan Clarkson role where he comes off the bench as a scorer. Clarkson is playing 26 minutes a game averaging 18.3 points for the team with the best record in the NBA, 26-6. That role could be a possibility for Sexton but I'm sure he'll remain a starter. We're kind of arguing whether he'll play 35 minutes like he does now or 26 minutes. That depends on how good the rest of the roster is to a large extent.

Big Z doesn't like the fact that the ball "sticks" to Sexton. He wants to see Collin getting a pass and immediately passing to someone else - swinging the ball around. But look at the lineup. Okoro almost never initiates a shot. Neither does Cedi, Allen, Nance, or Stevens. Those guys rarely go one-on-one. It's Sexton's job to break down the defense and either score or get it to one of these guys (and Garland) for an open shot. Cedi in particular depends on getting a pass when he's open for a 3.

With all due respect, the team doesn't need Collin to swing the ball to Nance, Cedi, or Okoro. Anybody can do that. When he does those guys just pass it right back to him.

ryanf said:

now i know you're not watching games, or at least not paying attention. sexton was not assigned to murray, okoro was. at some point stevens was assigned to him too to try to force him to shoot over length. huerter was cedi's assignment in the hawks game.

i will stop replying to you on this thread. your latest reply just proves to me you're hunting for excuses.

Click to expand...

I’m not saying Collin is a bad defender, he’s just too small to gaurd SGs and SFs
. You can’t teach size

ryanf said:

This is a thread where weepinwillow has dug himself a fox hole and is blindly defending that line. Others have debunked all of his arguments but he still fights for that imaginary line.

Click to expand...

This is quite possible! I am as stubborn on my opinions on Collin as Sexton is on rotating the ball quickly in the offense.

I still see a guy who misses plays, overdribbles, takes shots he shouldn't, forces action he shouldn't and misses rotations on defense, and the stat that best shows this is when you take the number of games played and divide by number of wins.

I think you should ask yourself why Collin can consistently put up what looks like great numbers: Points, FG%, 3 pt FG % and it doesn't seem to impact winning in any appreciable way. My theory from watching most Cavs games is that Collin doesn't always make winning basketball plays on both ends. Some of this is compounded by a weird fit with Garland, a lot of it is Collin's approach to the game. His teammates don't seem to play markedly better when he's on the floor.

I've seen a few other posters make this point, and I agree with it. He's a tough G to find a good fit for. I don't think Garland is as good as he could be w/Collin and I don't think Collin is as good as he could be if he had a better playmaking PG (or Point Forward) who had size to handle the cross-matches.

My other theory is that scoring in general is up across the NBA, defense is generally down because of how they call the game now, defense v quick guards is being legislated to a point that it's extremely hard to cover the perimeter from pentation. Because of this, we are in an era of inflated offensive stats.

And all that to also say that I like Collin on the Cavs! He works his tail off to get better, he plays at a frenetic pace, always going downhill, etc. I just don't think you will have a very good team if he's the guy getting the bulk of your scoring as well as the guy making most of the decisions with the ball. If he had a better feel for things, he could be Tony Parker without the accent. If he doesn't get that feel for things, he's maybe Zach LaVine without the height. (which isn't horrible, but it's hard to build around).

Wham with the Right Hand said:

With all due respect, the team doesn't need Collin to swing the ball to Nance, Cedi, or Okoro. Anybody can do that. When he does those guys just pass it right back to him.

Click to expand...

Sexton gets it back.. in better position with more options for Sexton to either take it to the hoop or pass it to someone, etc.. He absolutely should be swinging the ball to Nance, Windler, Okoro, Cedi, Prince, Stevens, whoever that Brodric kid is.. doesn't matter.
That play if made consistently, opens up his ability to get a better shot. It's literally the hardest pass to make in basketball because people make the ridiculous conclusion that you just made: those guys aren't as good a scorer as me so I shouldn't make this pass.

weepinwillow said:

I think you should ask yourself why Collin can consistently put up what looks like great numbers: Points, FG%, 3 pt FG % and it doesn't seem to impact winning in any appreciable way. My theory from watching most Cavs games is that Collin doesn't always make winning basketball plays on both ends. Some of this is compounded by a weird fit with Garland, a lot of it is Collin's approach to the game. His teammates don't seem to play markedly better when he's on the floor.

Click to expand...

I don't have any theories on how to make what seems to you match reality. The Cavs offense is 3.3 points per 100 possessions better with Sexton on the floor than off. The defense is 0.6 points per 100 possession better with Sexton on the floor. If the team isn't winning, that guy isn't the reason why. Looking at some of those numbers was interesting.

Larry Nance Jr. 8.8 points better
Dylan Windler 6.3 points better
Collin Sexton 3.9 points better
Jarrett Allen 3.0 points better
Andre Drummond 1.7 points better

Darius Garland 4.6 points worse
Cedi Osman 4.7 points worse
Isaac Okoro 6.7 points worse

weepinwillow said:

Sexton gets it back.. in better position with more options for Sexton to either take it to the hoop or pass it to someone, etc.. He absolutely should be swinging the ball to Nance, Windler, Okoro, Cedi, Prince, Stevens, whoever that Brodric kid is.. doesn't matter.
That play if made consistently, opens up his ability to get a better shot. It's literally the hardest pass to make in basketball because people make the ridiculous conclusion that you just made: those guys aren't as good a scorer as me so I shouldn't make this pass.

Click to expand...

You made the same points as me but expressed yourself much better and clearer (I speak French at work all day I forget my mother tongue ) I agree 100%, Collin Sexton has many qualities but basketball IQ on offense and defence are not among them.

His hard work and effort makes him an ok defender but I catch myself so often screaming at the TV for him to get back on defense, to stop ball watching, gambling on passing lanes. I don’t see why pointing out his flaws is so controversial.

OptimusPrime said:

I don't have any theories on how to make what seems to you match reality. The Cavs offense is 3.3 points per 100 possessions better with Sexton on the floor than off. The defense is 0.6 points per 100 possession better with Sexton on the floor. If the team isn't winning, that guy isn't the reason why. Looking at some of those numbers was interesting.

Larry Nance Jr. 8.8 points better
Dylan Windler 6.3 points better
Collin Sexton 3.9 points better
Jarrett Allen 3.0 points better
Andre Drummond 1.7 points better

Darius Garland 4.6 points worse
Cedi Osman 4.7 points worse
Isaac Okoro 6.7 points worse

Click to expand...

I think the fact that Collin is far more talented then his replacements on the bench is a better explanation for that stat then him making his teammates better.

BigZ94 said:

I think the fact that Collin is far more talented then his replacements on the bench is a better explanation for that stat then him making his teammates better.

Click to expand...

Whatever the case may be, the way to impact winning is to make the team better when you're on the court. He does that.