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Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

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What Resolves First?

  • Collin Sexton's Restricted Free Agency

    Votes: 19 38.8%
  • Baker Mayfield's Tenure with the Browns

    Votes: 30 61.2%

  • Total voters
    49
  • Poll closed .
Whatever the case may be, the way to impact winning is to make the team better when you're on the court. He does that.

Well he impacts winning on the worst team in the league, I see your point though and he definitely makes us better. But mine and I believe @weepinwillow s points are that he wouldn’t make a championship team much better. At least as a starting SG
 
Well he impacts winning on the worst team in the league, I see your point though and he definitely makes us better. But mine and I believe @weepinwillow s points are that he wouldn’t make a championship team much better. At least as a starting SG

How many 3rd year players would be one of the top 3 players on championship level team? He has gotten better every year he has been in the league. While I do not see him becoming the number 1 option on a contender, I definingly think he has the potential to be a top 3 option on contending team in the next few years.
 
I don't have any theories on how to make what seems to you match reality. The Cavs offense is 3.3 points per 100 possessions better with Sexton on the floor than off. The defense is 0.6 points per 100 possession better with Sexton on the floor. If the team isn't winning, that guy isn't the reason why. Looking at some of those numbers was interesting.

Larry Nance Jr. 8.8 points better
Dylan Windler 6.3 points better
Collin Sexton 3.9 points better
Jarrett Allen 3.0 points better
Andre Drummond 1.7 points better

Darius Garland 4.6 points worse
Cedi Osman 4.7 points worse
Isaac Okoro 6.7 points worse

The team isn't winning, and I contend he's part of the reason why for the reasons I've mentioned. He's mostly been the primary decision maker with the ball and he doesn't make the best decisions all the time, that the Cavs don't have a ton of playmakers is a legitimate gripe. They really need another ball handler and a way to move Sexton off the ball while still being able to defend both guard spots.
I don't know why I can't say I'd like Sexton to make the right basketball play more often than not.
In fact, I can and will continue to do so until I feel like I'm seeing otherwise. Speaking to that, I was real happy with his play in the last 6 or so games of last season and the start of this season, then when things got bad, Collin seemed to lean on old habits.
 
The team isn't winning, and I contend he's part of the reason why for the reasons I've mentioned. He's mostly been the primary decision maker with the ball and he doesn't make the best decisions all the time, that the Cavs don't have a ton of playmakers is a legitimate gripe. They really need another ball handler and a way to move Sexton off the ball while still being able to defend both guard spots.
I don't know why I can't say I'd like Sexton to make the right basketball play more often than not.
In fact, I can and will continue to do so until I feel like I'm seeing otherwise. Speaking to that, I was real happy with his play in the last 6 or so games of last season and the start of this season, then when things got bad, Collin seemed to lean on old habits.
First, you can say whatever you want. I would also like Sexton to continue improving his decision making, although he's done so every step of the way in his career, so I have no reason to believe he won't. Although saying Sexton makes the wrong basketball play more often than he makes the right one is a bit absurd, especially when you consider the team is demonstrably better when he is on the floor. In fact it would be impossible for both of those to be true.

Also, Darius Garland is the primary ball handler and decision maker. He has both more time possessing the ball per game than Sexton and also holds it longer each time he touches it.
 
Darius, Collin and Allen look really good together and are positive playing together. They are also not perfect and are 22 and under. Those guys, Okoro and Windler are basically all I care about. The fact that all of them are contributing is exactly what I wanted this year.
 
I still contend that the reason Sexland isn't a good starting backcourt isn't because of their size. Rather, it's because Garland just isn't a starting caliber point guard as of today. But Garland has played just 80-some career games and is learning the toughest position in the NBA. It can take some time. If Garland can learn to stay aggressive, play faster, and pout less, I don't think it's out of the question that Sexland can be effective. I actually think their games complement each other decently well.

Keep in mind, they're the youngest backcourt in the league. Both of them have improved a ton since last year and will continue to do so.
 
now i know you're not watching games, or at least not paying attention. sexton was not assigned to murray, okoro was. at some point stevens was assigned to him too to try to force him to shoot over length. huerter was cedi's assignment in the hawks game.

i will stop replying to you on this thread. your latest reply just proves to me you're hunting for excuses.

Sexton started the game on Murray. He was denying him the ball the first few times down and they got tangled up and both hit the ground early. Murray got up pretty upset and said something to the ref and then Collin. Murray picked his pocket just across half court and got a wide open dunk right before Collin subbed out as a result of the two of them accepting the challenge of guarding each other to start the game.

When he subbed out for Windler at 7mins, Okoro switched over to Murray and stayed on him anytime he was on the court. If Okoro was off the court, Collin was trying to guard Murray.

I'm not picking a side in the debate you guys were having this morning, but @BigZ94 was right on this.
 
Darius, Collin and Allen look really good together and are positive playing together. They are also not perfect and are 22 and under. Those guys, Okoro and Windler are basically all I care about. The fact that all of them are contributing is exactly what I wanted this year.

That's been my issue,you got people treating the young guys like they're seven year veterans.

Sexton, finally got stability at the coaching position. People seem to ignore this part the equation.

Garland been mostly healthy this season.

Okoro and Windler been improving offensively.

For whatever reason, this team can't get healthy. I understand injuries are part of the game but we seem to be hit with injuries more than other teams. I think the Atlantic had us third as the most injured team the last three years. Due to the injuries the team have to shuffle the lineups in most nights. Granted,Lamar and Windler probably wouldn't get alot of minutes.

People need to understand that this is a young team and they will make mistakes...That's part of learning to get better. Folks want to act like they never made a mistake at a job before.

It's unfortunate that Cleveland have this reputation in sports and people don't want to come here throught free agency so the better option is to draft and keep the talent you have,go through a trade to get talent or both.
 
man why are you calling me an idiot? Did you even read my posts? I’ve commented many times about how I like Sexton, I’ve repeatedly complemented his game and his scoring ability. As I’ve said he’s a good kid and has an amazing work ethic. All I’m saying is I don’t think he’s a legit starter on an elite NBA team, due to his size as an SG. Saying he would be best suited as a prolific 6th man off the bench doesn’t mean I think he’s a bad player. And when have I moved the goalposts? I’ve always been behind Colin

I never called anybody an idiot for disagreeing with me no need to get personal and start name calling.

I also appreciate the way you called this name-calling out and went back to making your point @BigZ94

To the point both you and @weepinwillow are making which I agree with...

I notice the frustration on some teammates when Collin doesnt see the floor or balance the floor in the offense. In the last game, there was a play where Cedi had the ball at the top of the key after a turnover, Windler was on his left giving him space to attack but not all the way in the corner, and Collin drifted out with his defender to right between Windler and Cedi.

It was hilarious watching Windler's body reaction as he tried to motion Collin to cut through and take his man with him ( Ithink Windler was 2 for 2 on 3's at the time). He tried to motion Collin through so as not to tip the defenders off and then when Collin disregarded him, he verbalized it and Collin still stayed between them as Dylan drifted more into the corner to establish a little more space for the 3 of them.

If I had the time right now, I'd create screen caps for it. :chuckle:

It's just a microcosm of what we see from pretty much every teammate except Larry (he's a statesman enough to be patient with Collin and probably only tell him when it wont appear he's showing him up) and Cedi (who has worse BB IQ than Sexton and probably saw nothing wrong with him crowding the wing anyway :chuckle:).

It CAN be improved, but it's not naturally a part of his game and he's not wired to see the floor and see spacing in the offense instinctively like that. He'll need A-Type personalities/leaders on the floor with him with really high IQ (Bron, Draymond, CP3 kind of leaders) to make sure he doesnt disrupt the offense when he's locked into scoring mode until it improves.
 
It's unfortunate that Cleveland have this reputation in sports and people don't want to come here throught free agency so the better option is to draft and keep the talent you have,go through a trade to get talent or both.

I agree with this 100% Part of the reason it stung so bad to cut KPJ loose.

When we get blue chip talent like Sexton, DG, Okoro and KPJ, we've got to be patient with them and put them in position to optimize their growth. Especially when you have a good kid who comes from a solid family like Collin, who also has enough of a chip on his shoulder to adopt Cleveland as his own home and (hopefully) never settle for being someone else's sidekick in order to win a championship like LeBron did with the decision.

I love Collin and feel like he's the kind of lunch pale, hard hat blue chip kid that would stay loyal to this city for his career (like Westbrook/Giannis/Duncan) as long as we optimize his game and put him in a position to contribute to winning.

I truly just feel that his game would be best optimized as a super 6th man, and hope that if it comes to that, he can see the benefit to adjusting to that role and making it his own
 
I also appreciate the way you called this name-calling out and went back to making your point @BigZ94

To the point both you and @weepinwillow are making which I agree with...

I notice the frustration on some teammates when Collin doesnt see the floor or balance the floor in the offense. In the last game, there was a play where Cedi had the ball at the top of the key after a turnover, Windler was on his left giving him space to attack but not all the way in the corner, and Collin drifted out with his defender to right between Windler and Cedi.

It was hilarious watching Windler's body reaction as he tried to motion Collin to cut through and take his man with him ( Ithink Windler was 2 for 2 on 3's at the time). He tried to motion Collin through so as not to tip the defenders off and then when Collin disregarded him, he verbalized it and Collin still stayed between them as Dylan drifted more into the corner to establish a little more space for the 3 of them.

If I had the time right now, I'd create screen caps for it. :chuckle:

It's just a microcosm of what we see from pretty much every teammate except Larry (he's a statesman enough to be patient with Collin and probably only tell him when it wont appear he's showing him up) and Cedi (who has worse BB IQ than Sexton and probably saw nothing wrong with him crowding the wing anyway :chuckle:).

It CAN be improved, but it's not naturally a part of his game and he's not wired to see the floor and see spacing in the offense instinctively like that. He'll need A-Type personalities/leaders on the floor with him with really high IQ (Bron, Draymond, CP3 kind of leaders) to make sure he doesnt disrupt the offense when he's locked into scoring mode until it improves.

I do see his optimal role as a finisher with a playmaking wing in the role Kyrie played with Lebron. Off ball shooter, who can attack the basket, but is not doing the heavy lifting playmaking wise. Not that he shouldn't work on it, because he should.

I also think he could work that out with Darius as well. That could totally work, but Garland is going to need to seize the reins as some point. That will require a little more swag. He would have to do that as the "man" playmaker because I don't think he is going to be the #1 scoring option.

I personally don't see Sexton as a 6th man, I think he is going to be too good for that. I think he is Pippen 1b type scoring option.
 
I also appreciate the way you called this name-calling out and went back to making your point @BigZ94

To the point both you and @weepinwillow are making which I agree with...

I notice the frustration on some teammates when Collin doesnt see the floor or balance the floor in the offense. In the last game, there was a play where Cedi had the ball at the top of the key after a turnover, Windler was on his left giving him space to attack but not all the way in the corner, and Collin drifted out with his defender to right between Windler and Cedi.

It was hilarious watching Windler's body reaction as he tried to motion Collin to cut through and take his man with him ( Ithink Windler was 2 for 2 on 3's at the time). He tried to motion Collin through so as not to tip the defenders off and then when Collin disregarded him, he verbalized it and Collin still stayed between them as Dylan drifted more into the corner to establish a little more space for the 3 of them.

If I had the time right now, I'd create screen caps for it. :chuckle:

It's just a microcosm of what we see from pretty much every teammate except Larry (he's a statesman enough to be patient with Collin and probably only tell him when it wont appear he's showing him up) and Cedi (who has worse BB IQ than Sexton and probably saw nothing wrong with him crowding the wing anyway :chuckle:).

It CAN be improved, but it's not naturally a part of his game and he's not wired to see the floor and see spacing in the offense instinctively like that. He'll need A-Type personalities/leaders on the floor with him with really high IQ (Bron, Draymond, CP3 kind of leaders) to make sure he doesnt disrupt the offense when he's locked into scoring mode until it improves.

Exactly, such a shame we haven’t been able to see Delly on the floor with Collin this year. Collins best stretch of his career was definitely when the two of them were getting minutes together. Garland is too passive and isn’t that type of on floor coach this team really needs right now.

I really think even though Delly is definitely on his last drops in the tank this year, he could have really improved our offense, we need a vocal leader like that desperately.
 
Exactly, such a shame we haven’t been able to see Delly on the floor with Collin this year. Collins best stretch of his career was definitely when the two of them were getting minutes together. Garland is too passive and isn’t that type of on floor coach this team really needs right now.

I really think even though Delly is definitely on his last drops in the tank this year, he could have really improved our offense, we need a vocal leader like that desperately.
Agreed... I am seriously missing Delly on this team right now. Especially with a team Delly would not really need to do so much in the way of scoring, he'd be golden now.
 
Agreed... I am seriously missing Delly on this team right now. Especially with a team Delly would not really need to do so much in the way of scoring, he'd be golden now.

The 6'4 do whatever it takes to help his team win Delly that @Randolphkeys first brought to my attention while at St. Mary's long before we signed him as a UDFA would be a perfect 3rd guard for these two. He was such a scrappy defender, selfless initiator and infectious leader on the floor.
 
I don't disagree with a lot of the specific criticisms of Sexton's game in here. The hyperbole is a bit much, and pigeonholing the guy into a bench role when he is the young player that has showed the most improvement of anyone during the rebuild doesn't make sense to me.

As good as he is off the ball, I would love to see him playing with Delly again, or even someone like Lonzo Ball. They don't have either of those guys though. Put a lineup of Ball, Sexton, Windler, Nance, and Allen out there and you have lots of space to score on offense. Swap Windler for Okoro (with more experience under his belt) and you can lock down almost anyone.

Honestly, Garland probably makes more sense as a 6th man. He could come off the bench and hit a few step backs and set up the reserves while hopefully the opponents backup point guard isn't good enough to kill him defensively. He could be a better shooting Delly that plays no defense. Putting Sexton out there with four bench scrubs is just going to force him to take bad shots and clog up his driving lanes.

But we're not in a position to bring either of them off the bench, and they're still young enough that they could develop enough to work just fine starting together. No one here knows what these young players are going to end up being, and they're going to struggle at times as they develop and learn how to play.
 

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