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2021 NBA Draft Safari

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Cade has to be in my top-10 after that game, but I think that game also shows why he's not a great fit for the Cavs unless we're willing to take the plunge into a big roster overhaul. He's most impactful when he has the ball in his hands and he's looking to score, and the Cavs already have two core players (Sexton and Garland) who need to have the ball in their hands to make a positive impact. The same could be said for Moody and Green. They're elite scoring prospects, but so good that you restructure the roster to build around them? I'm not sure.

I'm not sure what anyone has seen from Garland specifically that would lead us to believe that we should consider his roster spot when drafting in 2021. Especially relative to Okoro looking like he would be a more effective 2. The reality is, if the Cavs want to build a team that wants to win anything of significance, one of Garland or Sexton needs to go to the bench.

To me, the decision to draft Cade is easier than the decision to draft someone like Green.....because the decision to draft Green effectively torpedo's 2 of the last 3 draft picks they have made. It keeps Okoro at the 3, which he just looks too small to play and it pushes out Garland. Green creates some but the Green / Sexton combo might be pretty ball stoppy. But if you view Green as a #1 option on offense, I think you just blow everything up and start over......as there are only what? 8 of those guys in the NBA?

Cade is more of a pick where everything makes sense (if you like him as a prospect). I think Barnes as well but to a lesser degree (even though I really like him).

Sexton / Okoro / Cade with Garland as a 6th man makes sense
Sexton / Garland / Barnes with Okoro as a 6th man makes sense
Sexton / Green / Okoro with Garland as a 6th man is pretty murky to me

Cade is more appealing fit wise, just relative to his off ball value as a spacer......and I think he's good enough on defense where a starting lineup of Cade / Okoro, to me, is preferred over a starting lineup where Barnes tries make up for both our small guards.

The hangup with Barnes is if you want to start Okoro at the 2.......as I'm not sure how any modern NBA team deploys 3 backcourt players, where 2 of them can't shoot.
 
I'm not sure what anyone has seen from Garland specifically that would lead us to believe that we should consider his roster spot when drafting in 2021. Especially relative to Okoro looking like he would be a more effective 2. The reality is, if the Cavs want to build a team that wants to win anything of significance, one of Garland or Sexton needs to go to the bench.

To me, the decision to draft Cade is easier than the decision to draft someone like Green.....because the decision to draft Green effectively torpedo's 2 of the last 3 draft picks they have made. It keeps Okoro at the 3, which he just looks too small to play and it pushes out Garland. Green creates some but the Green / Sexton combo might be pretty ball stoppy. But if you view Green as a #1 option on offense, I think you just blow everything up and start over......as there are only what? 8 of those guys in the NBA?

Cade is more of a pick where everything makes sense (if you like him as a prospect). I think Barnes as well but to a lesser degree (even though I really like him).

Sexton / Okoro / Cade with Garland as a 6th man makes sense
Sexton / Garland / Barnes with Okoro as a 6th man makes sense
Sexton / Green / Okoro with Garland as a 6th man is pretty murky to me

Cade is more appealing fit wise, just relative to his off ball value as a spacer......and I think he's good enough on defense where a starting lineup of Cade / Okoro, to me, is preferred over a starting lineup where Barnes tries make up for both our small guards.

The hangup with Barnes is if you want to start Okoro at the 2.......as I'm not sure how any modern NBA team deploys 3 backcourt players, where 2 of them can't shoot.

I think this mirrors my view on Cade’s place in the rotation in general. Adding size in the backcourt is going to be a point of emphasis going forward and Cade is Big enough and has the chops on and off the Ball both offensively and defensively where I think he can alleviate a lot of issues pertaining to the backcourt
 
I'm not sure what anyone has seen from Garland specifically that would lead us to believe that we should consider his roster spot when drafting in 2021. Especially relative to Okoro looking like he would be a more effective 2. The reality is, if the Cavs want to build a team that wants to win anything of significance, one of Garland or Sexton needs to go to the bench.

To me, the decision to draft Cade is easier than the decision to draft someone like Green.....because the decision to draft Green effectively torpedo's 2 of the last 3 draft picks they have made. It keeps Okoro at the 3, which he just looks too small to play and it pushes out Garland. Green creates some but the Green / Sexton combo might be pretty ball stoppy. But if you view Green as a #1 option on offense, I think you just blow everything up and start over......as there are only what? 8 of those guys in the NBA?

Cade is more of a pick where everything makes sense (if you like him as a prospect). I think Barnes as well but to a lesser degree (even though I really like him).

Sexton / Okoro / Cade with Garland as a 6th man makes sense
Sexton / Garland / Barnes with Okoro as a 6th man makes sense
Sexton / Green / Okoro with Garland as a 6th man is pretty murky to me

Cade is more appealing fit wise, just relative to his off ball value as a spacer......and I think he's good enough on defense where a starting lineup of Cade / Okoro, to me, is preferred over a starting lineup where Barnes tries make up for both our small guards.

The hangup with Barnes is if you want to start Okoro at the 2.......as I'm not sure how any modern NBA team deploys 3 backcourt players, where 2 of them can't shoot.

But if we're benching Garland (I've never been a fan of his, so this isn't a big hangup for me) then we need some sort of PG in the starting lineup, right? Obviously Cade would be that guy based on high school scouting, but his college assist:TO numbers are worse than Sexton's were, and he's actually a bit older than Sexton as a prospect too. Ideally we need passing, floor spacing, and perimeter defense, and Cade provides just one, maybe one and a half of those things if you want to be generous about his passing. That doesn't sound like an ideal fit to me.
 
I'm not sure what anyone has seen from Garland specifically that would lead us to believe that we should consider his roster spot when drafting in 2021. Especially relative to Okoro looking like he would be a more effective 2. The reality is, if the Cavs want to build a team that wants to win anything of significance, one of Garland or Sexton needs to go to the bench.

To me, the decision to draft Cade is easier than the decision to draft someone like Green.....because the decision to draft Green effectively torpedo's 2 of the last 3 draft picks they have made. It keeps Okoro at the 3, which he just looks too small to play and it pushes out Garland. Green creates some but the Green / Sexton combo might be pretty ball stoppy. But if you view Green as a #1 option on offense, I think you just blow everything up and start over......as there are only what? 8 of those guys in the NBA?

Cade is more of a pick where everything makes sense (if you like him as a prospect). I think Barnes as well but to a lesser degree (even though I really like him).

Sexton / Okoro / Cade with Garland as a 6th man makes sense
Sexton / Garland / Barnes with Okoro as a 6th man makes sense
Sexton / Green / Okoro with Garland as a 6th man is pretty murky to me

Cade is more appealing fit wise, just relative to his off ball value as a spacer......and I think he's good enough on defense where a starting lineup of Cade / Okoro, to me, is preferred over a starting lineup where Barnes tries make up for both our small guards.

The hangup with Barnes is if you want to start Okoro at the 2.......as I'm not sure how any modern NBA team deploys 3 backcourt players, where 2 of them can't shoot.
I understand and share the concern with a Garland-Sexton backcourt long-term, but there's no lineup that makes sense to me that doesn't include a PG.

Sexton is not a PG, so I don't believe the actual decision is between the two of them. Sexton has clearly been the more productive player, but you can only put Garland on the bench if you have an actual replacement for him.

Barnes would suffice, but he's also one of the guys who might be able to make the Garland/Sexton pairing work as well while playing the 3/4 defensively and helping to initiate the offense.

EDIT: I keep getting beat to the punch today @Nathan S
 
But if we're benching Garland (I've never been a fan of his, so this isn't a big hangup for me) then we need some sort of PG in the starting lineup, right? Obviously Cade would be that guy based on high school scouting, but his college assist:TO numbers are worse than Sexton's were, and he's actually a bit older than Sexton as a prospect too. Ideally we need passing, floor spacing, and perimeter defense, and Cade provides just one, maybe one and a half of those things if you want to be generous about his passing. That doesn't sound like an ideal fit to me.

I think there’s something to be said for building towards a sort of playmaking by commitee where you aren’t necessarily relying on a single dominant ballhandler and passer to set up the offense, so even if neither Cade, Colin or Garland are realistically going to turn into the kind of playmakers that can anchor an entire offense, they Can still share the on Ball duties and work off each other.

Obviously, if the confidence in Cade, Colin and Garland’s passing isn’t there it’s a moot point, but the potential of adding another playmaker who Can facilitate off Ball opportunities for the other two is something I think works as a fit on paper
 
I really think Windler has a chance to be a starting 3 or 2 on a good team. He is an extremely smart player and can pass, shoot, rebound and defend reasonably well. If you pair him with Sexton and one of Cunningham or Barnes you should have enough playmaking and shooting to run an effective offense IMO.
 
Combos that intrigue me coming out of this draft (not saying these are necessarily your starting units):

Sexton-Windler-Barnes-Nance/Love-Allen
Garland-Sexton-Barnes-Nance-Allen
Garland-Sexton-Windler-Mobley-Allen
Garland-Okoro-Windler-Mobley-Allen
Garland-Sexton-Green-Love-Allen (what's defense?)
Garland-Green-Nance-Love-Allen
Suggs-Sexton-Windler-Nance/Love-Allen

If you believe in Cunningham's ability to create for others (I don't):
Sexton-Okoro-Cunningham-Nance/Love-Allen

I also think Jalen Johnson or Franz Wagner would look really nice in quite a few lineups for us.
 
Ideally we need passing, floor spacing, and perimeter defense, and Cade provides just one, maybe one and a half of those things if you want to be generous about his passing. That doesn't sound like an ideal fit to me.

I'm not sure how a wing that averages nearly 6 assists per 100 and has shot 42% from the extended line on 100 attempts, does not provide both passing and floor spacing? Just objectively speaking?

As I have said previously, AST/TO ratio doesn't seem to correlate to anything for wing types, from what I see. There are high turnover guys, there are low turnover guys.....success cases in both groups. If turnovers are a general concern, that is fine, they concern me as well......but Cade isn't a bad passer and I wouldn't pass on him merely because he turns the ball over. He has vision, he throws passes with accuracy, he's at worst a ball mover as a good shooter. He generates his turnovers off the dribble.....but he does so with really good isolation scoring numbers. So it is certainly a tough call on his projection but I believe the film is more indicative of his turnovers being made worse by a lack of spacing and teammates who are sub par shooters. He's also being defended in a way that NBA teams will just not be able to defend him......by congesting driving lanes, helping off shooters and planting a big man in the paint to just stand there and hang out.

Perimeter defense, we'll see.....it is a much tougher thing to quantify. But I would bet a lot of money that Cade will defend his position better than Garland defends his......so if Okoro can focus on defending 1/2 and not have to defend 1/2/3, I think there is a net gain there......but maybe I am being too generous.

From a roster standpoint, we have to make one of Sexton or Garland work, relative to our investment and the general under performance of our other draft picks. In Sexton's case, the talent he has shown thus far makes him the easy choice for who you try to turn in to a #2 on a good team. Holding on to this (to me) fantasy that Sexton and Garland can work together is a way to draft the wrong guy again. We already made that mistake once with Okoro IMO. We are trying to make something work that no NBA team has made work, right? And we hilariously are trying to be the first team to make said combo work with 1 player who, to this point, looks like a completely average guard. It just seems silly to me personally. Maybe Portland has sort of made it work......but that is with an entirely transcendent player, which we don't have.

I think Cade and Sexton are more interchangeable as creators in an offensive system. Sexton more as scorer and Cade more as a point forward type that has shooting gravity. And you insert Okoro as the clean up the scraps guy. Both Cade and Collin can be put off the ball and have value, so that also potentially helps unlock Okoro's driving ability and gives him more space to operate. Barnes has no off ball value on offense to me, similar to Okoro. I'm not sure how the quartet of Sexton / Garland / Barnes / Okoro makes sense, as you can't really have two of those 4 guys guys on the floor together at the same time. It just really limits your options, where you are trying to have to over manage rotations. And I also don't believe any player has the defensive ability to cover for both of those guys. If he did, from what I have seen, he might be the best defensive player of all time.

Cade isn't my first choice.....but if we are trying to make a pick on the wing that best suites our current roster, to me, he is that guy. He gives you more of what the team needs and a path to a backcourt that makes sense. If the idea is to try to make the pieces we have work or as many of the pieces as we can work, IMO his skill set is most complimentary to the most players. I personally like Barnes more, just from what I have seen........but to me, both Barnes and Green are guys you have to just start over and build around. Cade is a more volatile type of prospect but his collection of skills is most likely to make 2 of our last 3 picks make sense collectively. So if we don't have an appetite for starting completely over, I can see why he would be a good fit for the Cavs.
 
@I'mWithDan I'd argue the opposite of your final stanza.

I think someone like Barnes would fit like a glove with what we currently have whereas Cunningham would be a guy you kind of start over with.
 
@I'mWithDan I'd argue the opposite of your final stanza.

I think someone like Barnes would fit like a glove with what we currently have whereas Cunningham would be a guy you kind of start over with.

Do you just push Okoro to the bench and he's the odd man out? My preference would be no. I'd rather have an athletic guy at the 2 to help hide Sexton on defense.

And if Okoro is in, doesn't Barnes need to be out? Just relative to the lack of shooting?

I like Barnes a lot and want to believe he would unlock things.......but I really hate Garland on defense and I really hate Okoro on offense. :chuckle: So I personally struggle with how Barnes' inability to shoot just really doesn't mesh quite as well with lineup combinations, relative to Cade. But maybe you can squeeze enough shooting out of the 4 and 5 to make it work.
 
Do you just push Okoro to the bench and he's the odd man out?

And if Okoro is in, doesn't Barnes need to be out? Just relative to the lack of shooting?

I like Barnes a lot and want to believe he would unlock things.......but I really hate Garland on defense and I really hate Okoro on offense. :chuckle: So I personally struggle with how Barnes' inability to shoot just really doesn't mesh with lineup combinations. But maybe you can squeeze enough shooting out of the 4 and 5 to make it work.
I guess I don’t consider Okoro at all :chuckle:

He has to learn to shoot at a reasonable clip to be a starter regardless.
 
Beyond 2021 dreaming here, but this was a super interesting read


No one is on the Brandon Miller hype train yet?

This is tongue in cheek with Bates but man, Miller looks like such a stud NBA prospect too and he somehow doesn't get a ton of 2023 buzz.

He is so smooth, coordinated and athletic for a HS junior that is his size. And he exhibits the 3 level scoring you rarely see in NBA SF prospects when they are this young. Really curious to see how he develops.
 
I'm not sure how a wing that averages nearly 6 assists per 100 and has shot 42% from the extended line on 100 attempts, does not provide both passing and floor spacing? Just objectively speaking?

As I have said previously, AST/TO ratio doesn't seem to correlate to anything for wing types, from what I see. There are high turnover guys, there are low turnover guys.....success cases in both groups. If turnovers are a general concern, that is fine, they concern me as well......but Cade isn't a bad passer and I wouldn't pass on him merely because he turns the ball over. He has vision, he throws passes with accuracy, he's at worst a ball mover as a good shooter. He generates his turnovers off the dribble.....but he does so with really good isolation scoring numbers. So it is certainly a tough call on his projection but I believe the film is more indicative of his turnovers being made worse by a lack of spacing and teammates who are sub par shooters. He's also being defended in a way that NBA teams will just not be able to defend him......by congesting driving lanes, helping off shooters and planting a big man in the paint to just stand there and hang out.

Perimeter defense, we'll see.....it is a much tougher thing to quantify. But I would bet a lot of money that Cade will defend his position better than Garland defends his......so if Okoro can focus on defending 1/2 and not have to defend 1/2/3, I think there is a net gain there......but maybe I am being too generous.

From a roster standpoint, we have to make one of Sexton or Garland work, relative to our investment and the general under performance of our other draft picks. In Sexton's case, the talent he has shown thus far makes him the easy choice for who you try to turn in to a #2 on a good team. Holding on to this (to me) fantasy that Sexton and Garland can work together is a way to draft the wrong guy again. We already made that mistake once with Okoro IMO. We are trying to make something work that no NBA team has made work, right? And we hilariously are trying to be the first team to make said combo work with 1 player who, to this point, looks like a completely average guard. It just seems silly to me personally. Maybe Portland has sort of made it work......but that is with an entirely transcendent player, which we don't have.

I think Cade and Sexton are more interchangeable as creators in an offensive system. Sexton more as scorer and Cade more as a point forward type that has shooting gravity. And you insert Okoro as the clean up the scraps guy. Both Cade and Collin can be put off the ball and have value, so that also potentially helps unlock Okoro's driving ability and gives him more space to operate. Barnes has no off ball value on offense to me, similar to Okoro. I'm not sure how the quartet of Sexton / Garland / Barnes / Okoro makes sense, as you can't really have two of those 4 guys guys on the floor together at the same time. It just really limits your options, where you are trying to have to over manage rotations. And I also don't believe any player has the defensive ability to cover for both of those guys. If he did, from what I have seen, he might be the best defensive player of all time.

Cade isn't my first choice.....but if we are trying to make a pick on the wing that best suites our current roster, to me, he is that guy. He gives you more of what the team needs and a path to a backcourt that makes sense. If the idea is to try to make the pieces we have work or as many of the pieces as we can work, IMO his skill set is most complimentary to the most players. I personally like Barnes more, just from what I have seen........but to me, both Barnes and Green are guys you have to just start over and build around. Cade is a more volatile type of prospect but his collection of skills is most likely to make 2 of our last 3 picks make sense collectively. So if we don't have an appetite for starting completely over, I can see why he would be a good fit for the Cavs.

As I've said before, holding scoring and assist numbers constant, lower turnovers is strongly correlated with greater NBA success. Sure, there are exceptions, and sure, the sample I used to reach that conclusion isn't perfectly representative of current NBA prospects. But I haven't seen anything that seriously makes me doubt its validity. Everyone likes to bring up the spacing argument, but overall it's harder to be efficient at the NBA level in every facet of the game, including passing.

Consider that Jalen Green just managed 5 assists and 1 turnover today against pro competition. His teammates shot 5/22 from 3, so it's not like they were setting the world on fire. And Green was attracting plenty of defensive attention. He just...made good passes, and didn't turn the ball over. Cade hasn't managed that in 21 attempts and counting. So it's crazy to me that Cade is being billed as some sort of "point guard" prospect. At the next level, he's gotta do less dribbling and more shooting. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be under consideration for the Cavs, but we can't rely on a guy like him to bring the ball up and run the offense.
 
The lineup that most intrigues me is Sexton-Okoro-Windler-Barnes-Allen. That lineup is tough and gets after it, and I'm pretty sold on all of the intangibles that Barnes brings to the table to unlock that unit. Barnes' vision and playmaking more than makes up for Sexton's limitations there. I still believe Sexton can be a plus defender when guarding 1s. Okoro can slide into his natural position at the 2. Windler is the key as a guy to be a sniper from 3 and stretch the floor. A lot of the success of this lineup will hinge on Okoro developing into a respectable shooter.
 

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