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2021 Minor League Thread

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mopete12 said:
He’s not an MLB shortstop, so he’s blocked by Hernandez and Ramirez.
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His future position is second base I agree. But he's played a ton at shortstop and given what we have there, he should be here playing short. Look at his bio. He is listed as a middle infielder. He can certainly give you as good of defense as these 2 guys have given us.
 
The every day shortstop for the Cleveland Indians should be Andres Gimenez.

Period.

Just like Naylor should be playing every day. A lot of fans didn't agree. A lot of fans wanted Naylor to be replaced by a hotshot kid from below. Some even wanted to see Naylor sent down.

All those fans seem to have disappeared.

Like Naylor, Gimenez is a young MLB talent that needs to play every day in Cleveland.
 
Gimenez shouldn't be playing everyday if he's going to struggle on both sides of the ball. Right now that's exactly what he's doing, but no rash decisions need to be made.

Some guys work out of their woes and some need a reset. Thinking every player is going to just "find it" isn't realistic. Especially when they're 22 yrs old. If Andres' struggles continue he'll find himself in Columbus. If he begins to right the ship then he'll remain the SS in Cleveland. Point is, you don't let a young talent like him die on the vine.

The other part of this equation is Amed. With Ramirez on the roster and hitting well to this point, something will probably have to give eventually.
 
CDAV45 said:
Gimenez shouldn't be playing everyday if he's going to struggle on both sides of the ball. Right now that's exactly what he's doing, but no rash decisions need to be made.

Some guys work out of their woes and some need a reset. Thinking every player is going to just "find it" isn't realistic. Especially when they're 22 yrs old. If Andres' struggles continue he'll find himself in Columbus. If he begins to right the ship then he'll remain the SS in Cleveland. Point is, you don't let a young talent like him die on the vine.

The other part of this equation is Amed. With Ramirez on the roster and hitting well to this point, something will probably have to give eventually.
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Didn't you on several occasions type that exact same first paragraph, only using Naylor, instead of Gimenez.

Like Naylor, the decision to acquire Gimenez in trade wasn't merely a coin flip. The FO knew what it was doing and exactly what it wanted. And like Naylor, the decision to use Gimenez as the starting shortstop was not made in a day, or even a week. A lot of study and conversation over a long time went into those decisions. If an org trusts its decision making process, it sticks with the decisions it makes.

I am not impressed with what I have seen from Gimenez so far, but 25 games do not wipe out months, or even years, of evaluations.

I have no doubt that our org has been tracking both youngsters for years. And its not like we have a young MLB ready Francisco Lindor knocking on the door.
 
CATS44 said:
Didn't you on several occasions type that exact same first paragraph, only using Naylor, instead of Gimenez.

Like Naylor, the decision to acquire Gimenez in trade wasn't merely a coin flip. The FO knew what it was doing and exactly what it wanted. And like Naylor, the decision to use Gimenez as the starting shortstop was not made in a day, or even a week. A lot of study and conversation over a long time went into those decisions. If an org trusts its decision making process, it sticks with the decisions it makes.

I am not impressed with what I have seen from Gimenez so far, but 25 games do not wipe out months, or even years, of evaluations.

I have no doubt that our org has been tracking both youngsters for years. And its not like we have a young MLB ready Francisco Lindor knocking on the door.
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I don't recall exactly what I typed. I know what I think of Naylor hasn't changed. He's a good hitter with moderate power that struggles defensively.

Nobody has said or even insinuated that Gimenez was acquired by a coin flip. That is you exaggerating again, but no big deal, we're all used to it.

"Months or even years of evaluations" you say? He's 22 yrs old and has slashed 231/295/374/669 in 182 major league AB. Thing is, I'm not overly concerned with his offense at this point, but he needs to play good defense and he's clearly had some struggles. Mind you, I'm not advocating sending him down tomorrow by any means. It's just something to keep an eye on. Which is why I plainly stated that "no rash decisions need to be made".

We may very well have a "young MLB ready Francisco Lindor knocking on the door".
 
thestatman said:
His future position is second base I agree. But he's played a ton at shortstop and given what we have there, he should be here playing short. Look at his bio. He is listed as a middle infielder. He can certainly give you as good of defense as these 2 guys have given us.
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Valid points, but you can't just give up on a young, talented player like Gimenez quickly. Besides, Mad made the point that Arias is on the 40 man and Miller isn't so in order to bring Miller up a roster move would need to be made. He also made a very good point that if Miller were to be the one called up and Gimenez sent to Columbus where would he play? Arias is the everyday SS there and he needs reps because he is the SS of the future at this time.
 
CATS44 said:
The every day shortstop for the Cleveland Indians should be Andres Gimenez.

Period.

Just like Naylor should be playing every day. A lot of fans didn't agree. A lot of fans wanted Naylor to be replaced by a hotshot kid from below. Some even wanted to see Naylor sent down.

All those fans seem to have disappeared.

Like Naylor, Gimenez is a young MLB talent that needs to play every day in Cleveland.
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I think some posters are forgetting we have a very promising minor league system, and the FO is trying to balance developing these players and putting a contending team on the field. There will be trial and error. There will be a shuffle of players down and up. In the MLB, it can take multiple years until a player finally becomes an everyday player. But we are only 29 games into a 162 game season. We are no where near a shuffling of players, outside of ones completely shitting the bed(Allen) and bit players.

Naylor is looking pretty good right now, Bauers surprisingly so, too. Naylor is getting some love right now on here, Bauers still not so much. Two weeks from now could be completely different. Both could be tanking, both could improve, both could stay the same. I still think no matter what happens with Bauers, he's our next Blake whipping boy.

This FO has done a fantastic job of breaking the season into 3 parts. First part is see what we have that broke with camp(we're in the middle of this right now), second part is finding internal options as replacements up to the deadline for possible trades to fill holes. Third part is trying to secure that post season birth.
 
CDAV45 said:
Valid points, but you can't just give up on a young, talented player like Gimenez quickly. Besides, Mad made the point that Arias is on the 40 man and Miller isn't so in order to bring Miller up a roster move would need to be made. He also made a very good point that if Miller were to be the one called up and Gimenez sent to Columbus where would he play? Arias is the everyday SS there and he needs reps because he is the SS of the future at this time.
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Miller not on the 40 is the only reason he isn't on this team.
 
CDAV45 said:
I have no argument against that statement OBC, but I don't know how he fits as long as Hernandez is blocking him.
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Hernandez was an excellent (re)signing. Sadly it is now blocking Miller, who you may claim to be the biggest fan of, but I'd fight that tittle over you for!
 
CATS44 said:
The every day shortstop for the Cleveland Indians should be Andres Gimenez.

Period.

Just like Naylor should be playing every day. A lot of fans didn't agree. A lot of fans wanted Naylor to be replaced by a hotshot kid from below. Some even wanted to see Naylor sent down.

All those fans seem to have disappeared.

Like Naylor, Gimenez is a young MLB talent that needs to play every day in Cleveland.
Click to expand...

CATS44 said:
The every day shortstop for the Cleveland Indians should be Andres Gimenez.

Period.

Just like Naylor should be playing every day. A lot of fans didn't agree. A lot of fans wanted Naylor to be replaced by a hotshot kid from below. Some even wanted to see Naylor sent down.

All those fans seem to have disappeared.

Like Naylor, Gimenez is a young MLB talent that needs to play every day in Cleveland.
Click to expand...
Cats you certainly are entitled to an opinion here. What I've seen is a guy who in 25 games played, he has made 5 errors on routine plays. He's batting average to date is atrocious. I'm willing to give him a little more time, but if improvement doesn't happen in a month or so, a change needs to be made. This team is loaded with hot shortstop prospects and there is no reason for this kid to man the position if he doesn't produce.
CDAV45 said:
Valid points, but you can't just give up on a young, talented player like Gimenez quickly. Besides, Mad made the point that Arias is on the 40 man and Miller isn't so in order to bring Miller up a roster move would need to be made. He also made a very good point that if Miller were to be the one called up and Gimenez sent to Columbus where would he play? Arias is the everyday SS there and he needs reps because he is the SS of the future at this time.
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Giminez could play second base. If Giminez is so talented, then why is is defense and his offense so bad so far? In 130 major league bats with the Mets he hit 263. Whereby not awful, not great either. The Indians have a logjam at middle infield as we know. They need to figure it out and consider trading the glut. My point is that with all this middle infield talent to choose from, you can't have the varsity ss hitting below the Mendoza line.

As for Miller at short...he has played 122 games there with 12 errors. Not great but not horrible. He played second base 46 times with 4 errors. In the meantime Giminez has 5 errors in just 25 games. Not good. And I do understand that Miller's range may not be as good as the others. Nor the arm strength. But at this stage I would sacrifice a little defense for a batting average that is likely to jump 100 points.
 
Obscured By Clouds said:
Miller not on the 40 is the only reason he isn't on this team.
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Then they need to find a roster spot for him the sooner the better. Has Yu Chang over the past 5 years given anybody a reason for holding a roster spot for him? He never hit much in the minors, (had some power to be fair) and his 2 stints in the majors has been a disaster. Yu Chang has no future here.

As for service time. Miller is 24. No reason to expand his service time.
 
Miller is not playing in Cleveland, because he is not yet considered the best option. It has nothing to do with the 40 man. He could easily replace Chang tomorrow on both the 26 and 40 man rosters. Of course, he then would be sitting on the bench most of the time.

The idea that we might have the next Lindor is part of the problem. Fans regularly way over estimate the value of prospects. The odds of any one of our MIFs turning into one of the top five or ten players in baseball is so miniscule as to need a microscope.

There is an old adage pertaining to scientific discovery.

First, people say you are crazy. Next, they say it is against Biblical teachings. Finally, people say they believed it all the time.

In some ways it applies to baseball.

First many fans, including some who have migrated to this forum, thought that Brantley would never become more than a fourth OF, and derided those who insisted otherwise. Now, everybody 'knew' he would become an All Star.

The same thing happened when the idea of acquiring Franmil was first suggested.

And the latest example is Naylor, as fans that previously insisted that he should be sent down are back pedaling as furiously as possible.

Now, the focus has turned on Gimenez and Amed.

And, yes, many fans think that our FO makes decisions on a coin flip. If they actually do, I hope they keep flipping the same coin. Those coin flips have brought us a team that has had eight winning seasons in a row and one that is leading the division right now, which a vast majority of fans insisted was impossible.

But it has very little to do with luck. This org is acknowledged as one that has advanced info on just about every decent player from high school and the back fields of the Dominican on up. They knew everything about Gimenez and Naylor...and every other youngster they have acquired over the last twenty years.

The decision to play Naylor and Gimenez over fan favorites, like Johnson, Miller, and Arias, came after years of evaluation.
 
CATS44 said:
Miller is not playing in Cleveland, because he is not yet considered the best option. It has nothing to do with the 40 man. He could easily replace Chang tomorrow on both the 26 and 40 man rosters. Of course, he then would be sitting on the bench most of the time.

The idea that we might have the next Lindor is part of the problem. Fans regularly way over estimate the value of prospects. The odds of any one of our MIFs turning into one of the top five or ten players in baseball is so miniscule as to need a microscope.

There is an old adage pertaining to scientific discovery.

First, people say you are crazy. Next, they say it is against Biblical teachings. Finally, people say they believed it all the time.

In some ways it applies to baseball.

First many fans, including some who have migrated to this forum, thought that Brantley would never become more than a fourth OF, and derided those who insisted otherwise. Now, everybody 'knew' he would become an All Star.

The same thing happened when the idea of acquiring Franmil was first suggested.

And the latest example is Naylor, as fans that previously insisted that he should be sent down are back pedaling as furiously as possible.

Now, the focus has turned on Gimenez and Amed.

And, yes, many fans think that our FO makes decisions on a coin flip. If they actually do, I hope they keep flipping the same coin. Those coin flips have brought us a team that has had eight winning seasons in a row and one that is leading the division right now, which a vast majority of fans insisted was impossible.

But it has very little to do with luck. This org is acknowledged as one that has advanced info on just about every decent player from high school and the back fields of the Dominican on up. They knew everything about Gimenez and Naylor...and every other youngster they have acquired over the last twenty years.

The decision to play Naylor and Gimenez over fan favorites, like Johnson, Miller, and Arias, came after years of evaluation.
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Maybe those were arguments on your old board, but literally, none of those were happening here, and I don't believe anybody on this site has said they think the FO is making decisions with a coin flip. I don't think I'm going out on a limb here to say that a large majority of posters here hold the FO in high regard. Don't let the ghosts of message boards past haunt you any longer :chuckle:
 
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