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Evan Mobley: 2023 All Defensive 1st Team

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Is Evan Mobley the Greatest Player of All Time?

  • Yes

    Votes: 48 39.0%
  • Yes

    Votes: 21 17.1%
  • Yes

    Votes: 7 5.7%
  • YAAASSS!!!

    Votes: 36 29.3%
  • Jim Chones

    Votes: 25 20.3%

  • Total voters
    123
All I'm saying is some young guys tend to follow the lead of older players they admire. Green getting that money + being young can have a bad affect EARLY on.

Then stay away from those guys, and acquire some other young guys who don't have a problem with their focus. My god, if you've got a brand new rookie who can't stay focused on basketball -- and that was what you said about Green, not me -- then stay the fuck away from him.

Young + money + bad influence = bad combo. That's all I'm saying. The combo might not affect everyone but I hav watched Green pro-draft and he's the type it would affect.

Who was the bad influence on KPJ when he was here?

I'll tell you -- it was KPJ himself. He bore the responsibility for how he behaved, just as how Green is 100% responsible for any lack of focus he has due to the excitement of Houston. I think one of the biggest mistakes teams make is investing heavily in a player hoping to "turn them (or their attitude) around". Nothing wrong with taking a flyer (i.e., 30th overall pick) on a guy like that, but you're not talking about a flyer. You mentioned trading Garland, Sexton, and an unprotected 2021 pick for a guy based on the belief that he'll just be a different guy in Cleveland than in Houston.

No thanks. That's a huge, unacceptable risk for this team to take especially after we finally had our lottery ticket pay off in the form of Mobley. Now is the time to build smart around that lottery ticket, not trade in all our assets in the hopes of somehow getting another one.
 
Getting back to Mobley...

It is a joy to see how Mobley affects, alters, and even prevents shots from being attempted everywhere in his gigantic orbit. Only the most confident and alpha offensive players even attempt to challenge by attacking when Evan is anywhere close. Ja Morant was able to attack when he saw a positional advantage, but Trae Young had big problems and he ended up shying away from attacking anywhere close to Mobley.

JA has a similar effect, although his orbit isn't as large as Mobley's. You get both of them patrolling the paint and it has a stifling effect on the opposing offense. Teams can still attack successfully by getting our guys out of position and by knifing in with well timed cuts, but our vulnerability is extremely low with these guys on the floor together. Even LM's length contributes to this stifling defense when things get congested in the paint.

This is such a huge change from past seasons and it's fun to watch.
 
I think the fit around Mobley is ideally the same mix Boston landed on with KG.

Dynamic defensive players in the backcourt (Rondo, T Allen), spacing and scoring on the wing.

You’ll need a touch more shooting than Boston had, with how the league has shifted but I like the player roles a lot on that team, relative to the creating, defending, scoring burden each player had.

The toughest guy to find will be the Pierce type. I suspect we will have to draft that player……but I think we have a few guys on the roster that fill roles, if a team like ‘08 Boston is a model. J. Allen is the 5 and Okoro is potentially the Tony Allen role. So that would leave shooting on the wing and a really tough defender at the point of attack, as the guys you need to manufacture via trade or free agency.
 
I can understand if you said the unprotected first might be too much. But Garland and Okoro are not and will not be better players. Book it. We ran revisit this argument later in the year. Lmao at glorified JR Smith.
Last comment on this for now, but I have been on the record as not being a big fan of Green. Even if he turns into a scoring champ as Q-tip suggested, if that is all you are, its not worth much for actual winning. Look at Melo who was just that at a position of more importance and at one point a neutral defender and plus rebounder. Or for guard examples, you can look at players like English, Gervin, or as much as I hate to say it, AI. Green might be better in terms of counting stats and accolades, but none of that matters if it doesn't translate to winning. I think the play
I think the fit around Mobley is ideally the same mix Boston landed on with KG.

Dynamic defensive players in the backcourt (Rondo, T Allen), spacing and scoring on the wing.

You’ll need a touch more shooting than Boston had, with how the league has shifted but I like the player roles a lot on that team, relative to the creating, defending, scoring burden each player had.

The toughest guy to find will be the Pierce type. I suspect we will have to draft that player……but I think we have a few guys on the roster that fill roles, if a team like ‘08 Boston is a model. J. Allen is the 5 and Okoro is potentially the Tony Allen role. So that would leave shooting on the wing and a really tough defender at the point of attack, as the guys you need to manufacture via trade or free agency.
I think you hit the nail on the head here with the best model around Mobley. I think he is going to be a very dynamic defensive player that can be used to anchor a defense and on the other side be an elite complimentary player with high IQ passing, positioning, and shooting. To succeed with that, you need defensive wings/guards and one player who can be the primary shotmaker/playmaker (doesn't necc have to be the same guy). Getting one or two big bodies to eat space in the middle (young Perk, Big Baby) is also very helpful. I agree that both Allen and Okoro are guys we have right now that could end up being key players in that dynamic. Maybe Lamar Stevens could develop into that as well. In the fantasy land with no coke David Thompson, I also add healthy Windler to that group. Unfortunately, LNJ would have been perfect too.

The issue is that as much as I love both Sex and Land as individual basketball players, I am not sure you can keep them together any longer if you are chasing a Boston model. Sexton has shown the dynamic offensive shotmaking that suggests he could fill in the scorer role, but I do not think he works as a playmaker. There is potential for Garland to fill the playmaking role, but he isn't quite the shotmaker Sexton is - not for lack of skill, but mentality. As is, the pairing with both of them playing extended minutes together does not work. You just give up too much on D and negate the benefits of Mobley and Allen in the back. The closest parallel I can think of is those Minny teams with Cassell/Spree in the backcourt but Spree was bigger and a better defender than Sexton and Cassell was better on D than Garland.

Getting the scoring/playmaking wing is going to be the hardest part for sure. The draft is the most likely answer, but for example if NOP starts shopping Ingram, I would jump at the chance to flip one of Sexland+a first + Cedi for him.
 
I thought about it after the game, but the Cavs will need to build a team around Mobley sooner rather than later.

And my benchmarks are firstly:

Do not use him as a band aid defensively like you are using him now to cover for the other player's deficiencies. Build a team around his defensive playmaking. There are a lot of good defensive big man... you have the rim protectors like Gobert who's main team philosophy is to funnel players towards the rim and not switch too much and you have the capable players who can switch on the perimeter and there are the players that can do both at an adequate level. But you never, almost never have guys that can do both at an elite level. Scratch that, not only is he able to excel in these areas, but also in a zone, help defense and basically every fucking thing. You take advantage of this shit.

The team's philosophy should have to create defensive mismatches, not offensive ones. I wanna talk about the the big lineup we are currently rolling with -- it's pretty useless if you are sooo undersized and defensively inept in the back court. What's the point of it if you are getting killed on the boards, players still over-rotate and you can't switch effectively because the backcourt is incapable of rebounding or defending the post? Meh, even offensively none of the front court players is good in the post so one of the main advantages of such lineup goes to waste.

I was advocating for this lineup before it was official, but I had Okoro in place of Sexton and Mobley guarding the perimeter. Mobley should always start guarding the perimeter to start the defensive possession imho. But that should not be the long term answer, obviously.

Anyways, m general idea is that the Cavs will want to aim towards a combination of what Toronto and GSW (2015-6 ver) were trying to do, but on steroids. Both of these teams had/have defensive weaknesses though. Toronto while very switchable team, lack great shot blocking. GSW could cover for a lot of Curry's deficiencies with Klay, Green, Igoudala, etc and could block shots as well as switch when needed. But Bogut was still a weakness when he was targeted on the perimeter and Curry was still a target in the post and on the perimeter against good players. They were great at incorporating a double switching (guard that was switched towards the big man roller immediately switched back with the big not involved in the play from the opposite corner). Later with Durant they changed their philosophy into hedge heavy, double team heavy PnR defense with constant defensive rotations and Durant hanging around as a rim protector. They adopted to their personnel which was incredible and impressive.


I'm rambling, but the first move should be separating Sexton and Garland. Trying to incorporate Windler once healthy to more lineups that feature the starting unit.

Just fucking try to figure out how to find that two way wing and sorry, according to this philosophy Markannen is not the long term fit at any spot as a starter. You want to be bulletproof defensively at the 3-5. And one switchable player at the 1-2.

Anyways, it's just an idea as in reality finding two way players and not just specialists is an awfully difficult task, but Cavs have done the harder part, finding the player, now they need to figure out the identity they want to take on, and I don't believe they should just find players for the sake of just being better. Mobley gives you a very good idea of where you should go and what you should be doing. Even before he is molded. GSW built a team to hide Curry's defensive deficiencies and maximize his offensive prowess, and the Cavs should do the same.

It's easy to build around a guy like Mobley..in theory it makes you avert to overpaying players because you know what you want to be looking for. Like compard to a guy like Jalen Green even if he becomes a great player will always have deficiencies and at the end of the day is still purely a scoring guard with below average defense. With those guys things are less clear and defined, which may result in some weird roster construction just for the sake of being better. With Mobley teams can take their time and keep the checks blank for the time the proper fellas come along.

We should fire up the draft thread.

The challenge of building a team around him right now is I am not sure what his game will look like in 3 years. You don't want to decide what he is prematurely and build it wrong. My preference is to just let him do a bit of everything for a couple of years and then decide how to best structure the roster.
 
Then stay away from those guys, and acquire some other young guys who don't have a problem with their focus. My god, if you've got a brand new rookie who can't stay focused on basketball -- and that was what you said about Green, not me -- then stay the fuck away from him.



Who was the bad influence on KPJ when he was here?

I'll tell you -- it was KPJ himself. He bore the responsibility for how he behaved, just as how Green is 100% responsible for any lack of focus he has due to the excitement of Houston. I think one of the biggest mistakes teams make is investing heavily in a player hoping to "turn them (or their attitude) around". Nothing wrong with taking a flyer (i.e., 30th overall pick) on a guy like that, but you're not talking about a flyer. You mentioned trading Garland, Sexton, and an unprotected 2021 pick for a guy based on the belief that he'll just be a different guy in Cleveland than in Houston.

No thanks. That's a huge, unacceptable risk for this team to take especially after we finally had our lottery ticket pay off in the form of Mobley. Now is the time to build smart around that lottery ticket, not trade in all our assets in the hopes of somehow getting another one.
I agree with you that Porter was his own problem. The guys we had here like Sexton and Garland are good know or basketball only guys. I'm also saying that right now that Green is not 100% focused on basketball because of new money, new influence (Porter Jr) and new scenery (Houston night life). But he will break out of that by mid season and go off regardless.
 
PSA:

Mobley will eventually have his first bad game at so,e point this season, probably sooner than later.

When he does, that one game along does not mean any of the following:

1. He’s not a unicorn destined for greatness
2. He’s being “ruined” by the coaching staff
3. He’s being “ruined” or “wasted” by the FO and the team that’s been put together so far
4. The other players don’t know how to play with him or are responsible for his bad game

Any of those can bear out to be true(well not #1 IMO) over the course of a long seasons but I am already dreading the overreaction hot takes the minute he has his first bad performance
 
PSA:

Mobley will eventually have his first bad game at so,e point this season, probably sooner than later.

When he does, that one game along does not mean any of the following:

1. He’s not a unicorn destined for greatness
2. He’s being “ruined” by the coaching staff
3. He’s being “ruined” or “wasted” by the FO and the team that’s been put together so far
4. The other players don’t know how to play with him or are responsible for his bad game

Any of those can bear out to be true(well not #1 IMO) over the course of a long seasons but I am already dreading the overreaction hot takes the minute he has his first bad performance

Sorry bro... I have this one marked on my calendar already.

Cya then.
 
PSA:

Mobley will eventually have his first bad game at so,e point this season, probably sooner than later.

When he does, that one game along does not mean any of the following:

1. He’s not a unicorn destined for greatness
2. He’s being “ruined” by the coaching staff
3. He’s being “ruined” or “wasted” by the FO and the team that’s been put together so far
4. The other players don’t know how to play with him or are responsible for his bad game

Any of those can bear out to be true(well not #1 IMO) over the course of a long seasons but I am already dreading the overreaction hot takes the minute he has his first bad performance
So... you're overreacting to overreactions that haven't happened yet?

Time is a flat circle.
 
Stuff happens. This is a marathon not a sprint like the NFL. Don't expect Rubio to have a good shooting game like last night all year. You will be disappointed. At the same time, the Hawks aren't going to have the clustereff 3rd quarter many times either

Mobley is going to have ups and downs. 1-2 of those downs maybe quite low and faith will be tested.
 

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