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2021-2022 Cavaliers General Discussion: Trade Deadline Edition

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Who Should the Cavs Trade For?

  • Murray

    Votes: 18 37.5%
  • Lavert

    Votes: 17 35.4%
  • White

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • Seth Curry

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • Schroeder

    Votes: 7 14.6%
  • Tatum

    Votes: 3 6.3%
  • Hart

    Votes: 3 6.3%
  • Ingram

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • Brown

    Votes: 2 4.2%
  • Jim Chones

    Votes: 9 18.8%

  • Total voters
    48
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The change in midrange shot distribution is actually fascinating. It is basically only a shot stars take now. It is still efficient for someone with high usage to take a few 18 footers, along with their already high FT and 3pt rates. It is still an objectively bad shot, but if you are good enough, then sure you can take them (DDR, LMA, KD, Dirk). The main change is that all the long 2s that scrubs like Travis Outlaw used to take are just corner 3s now. Much more efficient. Point is, it makes the game more watchable when we aren't waiting for John Salmons to dribble the air out of the ball and take a fading 18 footer
Thats a matter of opinion. I find nothing watchable about players jacking up three pointers every other trip down the floor. Up three (shoot a three) down two (shoot a three), down one (shoot a three)! I was watching the Hawks the other night. They were up 6 with less than a minute to go and Trey comes down and fires up a three ball with ten seconds left on the shot clock. Not very smart basketball to me.
 
You may want to think about this and edit while you still have a chance....
My bad looked at the wrong line.
The leaders in league in FG percentage
Mitchell Robinson
Field Goal Percentage
1. Mitchell RobinsonNYK 88.0
2. JaVale McGeePHX 76.0
3. Jarrett AllenCLE 74.0
4. Rudy GobertUTA 72.1
5. Richaun HolmesSAC 71.4
 
Thats a matter of opinion. I find nothing watchable about players jacking up three pointers every other trip down the floor. Up three (shoot a three) down two (shoot a three), down one (shoot a three)! I was watching the Hawks the other night. They were up 6 with less than a minute to go and Trey comes down and fires up a three ball with ten seconds left on the shot clock. Not very smart basketball to me.
I agree with this, especially when officiating enables this new age scrubbery. Sometimes I just want to see a damn bucket however you can get one, and for the sake of "gravity" MFs just chuck it.
 
My bad looked at the wrong line.
The leaders in league in FG percentage
Mitchell Robinson
Field Goal Percentage
1. Mitchell RobinsonNYK 88.0
2. JaVale McGeePHX 76.0
3. Jarrett AllenCLE 74.0
4. Rudy GobertUTA 72.1
5. Richaun HolmesSAC 71.4

The problem with your post was not that you picked the wrong examples, but that you seem to be unaware that 3 is greater than 2
 
I do agree that the proliferation of 3 point shooting has gone too far and is starting to affect the balance of the game. We need some rules changes, starting with moving the 3 point line further out and eliminating the corner 3
 
I do agree that the proliferation of 3 point shooting has gone too far and is starting to affect the balance of the game. We need some rules changes, starting with moving the 3 point line further out and eliminating the corner 3

The selling point from an entertainment viewpoint of the NBA product isn't just the talent level but the high level shooting and the spacing that it provides for elite level athletes compared to college ball. Even then, guys would adapt and continue shooting from the new three point line eventually mastering it because 3 will always be more than 2.
 
You also have a better chance of getting an offensive rebound on a missed 3 because the ball usually bounces further from the rim, frequently 15 feet or more. Also, you're in better position to defend a fast break if you don't get the rebound, unless it's a corner 3.

How often have we seen Sexton or Garland miss a driving layup and end up on the floor up against the basket support while the opponent grabs the rebound and takes off on a 5-on-4 break? That doesn't happen on a missed 3.

What I want them to eliminate is the Warriors grabbing and/or setting moving screens on whoever is defending Curry, and also allowing him to pick up the ball and take a step and a hop to get behind the 3-point line.
 
The selling point from an entertainment viewpoint of the NBA product isn't just the talent level but the high level shooting and the spacing that it provides for elite level athletes compared to college ball. Even then, guys would adapt and continue shooting from the new three point line eventually mastering it because 3 will always be more than 2.

Ummm, moving the three point line out makes a difference because it reduces your chance of making the shot. Obviously if the three point line was fifty feet away (not suggesting that) very few people would use it.

The mathematics of it is that people will shoot from spots that give the same expected points per shot. The expected points of a 50% probability 2 point shot (a very good shot you have to scheme to get) are equal to a 33% probability 3 point shot (a very ordinary 3 point shot from the current distance right now, probably half or more of NBA players can make that percentage). If you move out the distance so that it actually takes a very good three point shooter to shoot 33%, and most shooters are closer to say the 25-28% range (around a 40% two point shot), there will be greater game balance, more of the offensive court will be used, and more people will strategize to find 2 point shots. Very long two point shots will still be a dead zone of course.
 
I do agree that the proliferation of 3 point shooting has gone too far and is starting to affect the balance of the game. We need some rules changes, starting with moving the 3 point line further out and eliminating the corner 3
Disagree. This would be a DRASTIC change. Let’s start with letting defenders be more physical on the perimeter and preventing the refs from bailing out jump shooters. We’ll see if they follow through on their new “unnatural shooting motion” rule. I’d like them to get rid of the foul call where the defender has their arm out and then the offensive player swipes up or sideways through the defender’s arm. If the defender’s arm was clearly there first, then it shouldn’t be a foul. The refs can also devalue the 3pt shot by actually calling the slap-down fouls that happen so often on takes to the rim.
 
We are already starting to see some guys shoot from 35+ (Trae, Steph, Dame, Darius). It would def devalue the 3 a bit more. I think eliminating the corner 3 would do a lot of good, but it needs to be done carefully. You have a lot of these specialists who shoot the shorter corner 3 at a high clip (35%+) but are absolute trash from every where else. Players like PJ Tucker would be totally unplayable in that scenario.


As for the earlier discussion about a lot of 3s being "bad for basketball," I think a lot of that is an aesthetic issue. If you prefer the iso-heavy 1v1 game of the late 00s or post play or whatever, then sure I could see 3s being bad. But opening up the lane and creating space leads to way more alley-oops, more inside finishing and a higher pace of play, all of which I view as a good thing. And I say this as someone who grew up on the wing iso era and who loves a good Dream Shake.
 
The problem with your post was not that you picked the wrong examples, but that you seem to be unaware that 3 is greater than 2
Yes 3 is greater than 2 but I posted those figures because the poster I was responding to said that “mid range shots were less efficient than 3 pointers”! Which is ridiculous!
 
Thats a matter of opinion. I find nothing watchable about players jacking up three pointers every other trip down the floor. Up three (shoot a three) down two (shoot a three), down one (shoot a three)! I was watching the Hawks the other night. They were up 6 with less than a minute to go and Trey comes down and fires up a three ball with ten seconds left on the shot clock. Not very smart basketball to me.
Trae Young is a low key dummy when it comes to shot selection and making the right play. Very overrated imo.
 
Yes 3 is greater than 2 but I posted those figures because the poster I was responding to said that “mid range shots were less efficient than 3 pointers”! Which is ridiculous!
If I shoot 33% from 3, my expected point per shot is 1. If I shoot anything less than 50% from midrange, I am better off shooting a 3. On any substantial amount of attempts, there are maybe 3-5 players a given year who shoot 45% from midrange...and half of those guys are usually the top 3pt shooters anyway (KD, Steph). Its not ridiculous, its math.
 
Yes 3 is greater than 2 but I posted those figures because the poster I was responding to said that “mid range shots were less efficient than 3 pointers”! Which is ridiculous!
THE best mid range shooters shoot around 50%. Statistically, if they shoot 100 mid range shots, they'll make around 50 shots, which would be equivalent to 100 points (2 points x 50 shots).

If player A shooting 34% from the 3 point range shoots 100 3-point shots, they'll make around 34 3-pointers, which would be equivalent to 102 points (3 points x 34 shots). 102 > 100.

Now, player A is a below average 3 point shooter since the average NBA 3 point percentage is around 36 - 37% (36.7% last season). Yet, he can score more points by shooting his 3s than the absolute best, elite mid range shooters can score shooting the same amount of mid range shots - we're talking Durant, Dirk level type of shooting. This is why mid range shots are less efficient than 3 pointers.
 
If I shoot 33% from 3, my expected point per shot is 1. If I shoot anything less than 50% from midrange, I am better off shooting a 3. On any substantial amount of attempts, there are maybe 3-5 players a given year who shoot 45% from midrange...and half of those guys are usually the top 3pt shooters anyway (KD, Steph). Its not ridiculous, its math.
Math notwithstanding is not the case! It’s the amount of three ball shots taken and when they are taken (ie not in the flow of game). Taking three balls on a 3 on 1 fast break or firing up 3-4 three ball shots in a single possession when you’re down one point is stupid basketball.
 
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