Game Thread | 2021-2022 | Game #19 | Suns @ Cavs | Nov. 24, 2021

There was bad reffing, some bad management by JBB, but also some missed layups and FTs by Rubio. I normally like Ricky, but he had some really excruciating moments tonight down the stretch. Wasn't planning on watching much after the Sexton injury, but when I saw the Cavs were close with the Suns, and Love was doing well, I had a bit of hope and tuned in for the second half. Sad loss, but I'm happy the team is still competitive. I expected them to get slaughtered tonight, and they weren't.

BimboColesHair said:

Team has played without a doubt the hardest schedule to this point in the entire association, has done so getting 3/19 games with their full rotation, and are somehow 9-10, in every game regardless of personnel even against the leagues best teams, and with a weak Orlando team coming to town after 2 days off have a chance to go 10-10 with an early season schedule even the biggest Cavs homer wouldn’t have guessed they would be at looking at the first 20 games before the season started.

Like, what the fuck did some of you people expect to see from this team this year after what we’ve seen the last 3 for you to be the biggest sad sap sacks of shit about the current state of this team?

Watchable basketball with more consistent winning opportunities is such a big improvement over the previous 3 seasons yet here we still bitch.

Seriously, what were your expectations after what we have seen the last 3 years.

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I expect our head coach to understand clock management.

I love watchable basketball. I'll take that and a L all day. As long as they learn and eventually turn those Ls into Ws.

Tonight was extremely competitive watchable basketball, the crowd was very much alive, playoff esque booing, Moondog beating the Let Go Cavs drum, if we have Mobley, then this team gets more timely stops.

daytripper said:

No doubt they keep putting up a good fight. It does get frustrating when the other team seems to come back and beat the Cavs in the 2nd half every single game. The Warriors, Nets, and Suns are all good squads but it feels a bit like Lucy pulling the football every time..We keep seeing the same basic script over and over.

Also the officiating is beyond horrific. One of my friends swears the NBA is scripted and it's actually a believable concept if you just keep your eyes on how these games are officiated. I can't believe these are supposedly the best refs in the world.

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The come backs happen because our defense is shaky.. we are hanging in these games because somebody gets unreasonably hot ( tonight it was Cedi) but we can't reliably get a stop..

KevinLoveFan said:

There was bad reffing, some bad management by JBB, but also some missed layups and FTs by Rubio. I normally like Ricky, but he had some really excruciating moments tonight down the stretch. Wasn't planning on watching much after the Sexton injury, but when I saw the Cavs were close with the Suns, and Love was doing well, I had a bit of hope and tuned in for the second half. Sad loss, but I'm happy the team is still competitive. I expected them to get slaughtered tonight, and they weren't.

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Ricky has looked spent the past few fourth quarters, and it corresponds exactly with the injury to Sexton. If the Cavs are serious about a playoff run this year, they need a third ball handling guard who is solid enough for 25 minutes or so. Cedi is trying his ass off, but the Okoro/Windler deficit is a problem for our here and now.

Rich said:

I expect our head coach to understand clock management.

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Pound sand.

If it wasn’t his clock management you would have found something else to piss and moan about with him and you know it.

Real Deal said:

I love watchable basketball. I'll take that and a L all day. As long as they learn and eventually turn those Ls into Ws.

Tonight was extremely competitive watchable basketball, the crowd was very much alive, playoff esque booing, Moondog beating the Let Go Cavs drum, if we have Mobley, then this team gets more timely stops.

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We were up against a team with a 13 game winning streak.

I think what really hurt us was the Suns are a veteran team and they pulled out some tricks like McGee fouling in the backcourt to stop the three point bucket, or CP3 going right up when Garland reached in, or some of the other plays where they took advantage of weak refs.

For me the best part about the game was seeing Cedi play with aggression and confidence. When he shoots he believes it’s going in. He’s getting much better at creating his own shot.

Garland was off tonight. I don’t know if what almost scratched him from the game tonight affected his play but he was clearly not himself.

Love has done very well offensively since returning from illness and he’s back to grabbing rebounds.

I doubt many people had us at 9-10 with the schedule we had and of course the injuries have been awful. Even when we lose we compete. We played a good team hard tonight _ not enough for a win but we will get better. Still must-watch TV for me.

InBoobieWeTrust said:

JB negative- weak ATO’s, poor clock management, poor minute management, poor rotations, poor late game decision making, poor overall strategy in crunch time

Listen, the Suns gifted us a free timeout. We were down 3, shot clock basically off, one timeout left. JBB should have had the guys ready to take the ball and rip down the floor, quick pick and roll action for what would have probably been a gimme layup. Then you start playing the foul game with the suns until under 8 or so seconds. You wait untiil you either gain an advantage in the FT game and then call TO to tie or win, If you go back and forth and the lead is still 3, you take your timeout at under 8 seconds and you advance the ball and give your best ATO play and hit someone curling off a screen for a catch and shoot three to prevent them fouling.

What you do NOT do, is WASTE your timeout…to draw up an off the dribble 3 from your 7th man no matter how hot he is. Even if he makes it and you tie it…Phoenix has a TO and can take the last shot on your home floor.

The clock management and timeout management was a clown show. JBB did NOT game every possible situation out. He tunnel visioned to the next possession. That is not what you look for from a coach that you want to be a long term coach to get you to the promised land, that is the kind of thing that screams this is s guy who we will have to replace one day no matter how good Mobley and Garland get.

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That’s a whole lot negatives tied to JBB, lol.

Rich said:

That's fine. And I appreciate the more.competitive nature of the team.

But the ceiling has been raised because of what Mobley appears to be already.


The coach is going to hold them back THIS year. If Mobley didn't already look like an all NBA defensive player who turns this team from a bottom 10 defense into a top 10 one, OK.

But he is. And we can actually do real damage in the postseason....with a different coach.

He lost this game. He lost the Washington game.

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JBB's end of game management was extremely disappointing, no doubt. I'm with you there. The thing is, as much as JBB's warts are glaring at crucial times, does he not get credit for having his players very clearly bought in completely and fighting their asses off to remain competitive in games they have no business being in?

Like tonight, if we never rallied from a double digit deficit in the 4th quarter to even get to a point where JBB made such a glaring end-of-game blunder, would he get less criticism?

I think it's a very very fair point to think we may need a Steve Kerr to step in after JBB fulfilled the Mark Jackson role to develop good habits in young players to take us to the promised land. JBB could very well be a coach that is best suited to teach and develop a strong culture at an early stage in most of his players' careers. Even if JBB isn't going to be the guy can lead the team to a championship, I absolutely appreciate his contribution.

What Boobie is trying to say is that we could win games in these situations if our coach understood how to utilize in game management situations, clutch situations, when to use timeouts. Those intangibles make a difference from getting a loss to a win.

However on the other hand, the team has played significantly well together. I’m amazed on how this staff gets their players to play lights out game to game. I know no one likes close losses but these teams we played against are favorites to win championship and we’re doing this without Mobley and Sexton. Hats off to them. I enjoy watching them play and I’m proud of them.

Cavs missing their projected best scorer and their most versatile defensive stopper and comes close to upset Suns with more full strength... Is a giant's step forward. One of these games against top of the top teams will turn to Cavs favor, and after that, it becomes easier to do it again. There are bright lights ahead.

Fun game to watch IMO. They played hard and, for the most part, well. I didn't understand what they were doing in the final 20 seconds but whatever. That's the second game in a row that Garland and Rubio have combined to shoot 13-39. They have to do better than that.

Randolphkeys said:

Ricky has looked spent the past few fourth quarters, and it corresponds exactly with the injury to Sexton. If the Cavs are serious about a playoff run this year, they need a third ball handling guard who is solid enough for 25 minutes or so. Cedi is trying his ass off, but the Okoro/Windler deficit is a problem for our here and now.

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Ricky was 5-for-20 from the field and missed three free throws in a 5-point loss. But I don't think it was fatigue. He had yesterday off and only played 29 minutes tonight, which is what he was getting before Sexton's injury.

In his last three games Rubio is 13-for-47 from the field (27.7%) and 6-for-21 on 3's (28.6%). We need a lot more shooting efficiency from him. He missed three layups at the rim tonight.

The Cavs had a nice offensive game with 115 points and only 10 turnovers, but they couldn't stop Booker, who poured in 35. The jump shot off the dribble is the hardest shot to defend. Jerry West went to the Hall of Fame on that shot.

McGee had a great game off the bench with 13 points and 12 rebounds in 20 minutes plus a very smart backcourt foul that saved them 3 points. And Chris Paul schooled Garland in the last two minutes by fouling him out of the game and hitting two free throws to extend the Suns' lead to four when a defensive stop would have given the Cavs the ball trailing by 2.

Cedi was 5-for-7 on 3's while the rest of the Cavs were 7-for-32, or 22%. Garland was 0-for-6 from deep. Until the Cavs get better at shooting 3's across the board they aren't going to beat the better teams. They can't rely on one or two guys.

Allen had a terrific game with 25 points and 11 boards on 9-for-10 from the field. He was outplaying Ayton unlike in the last meeting between these teams.

Dean Wade has some nice defensive moments but he scored no points and was a -13 in 16 minutes. If Mobley was ready the Cavs probably win this one.

I fully expected the Suns to cruise tonight, but instead this was a hell of a game. Horrible officiating.

The negativity on this board astounds me sometimes, but I suppose it's about expectations. If you really think the Cavs should be a lock to make the playoffs because of Mobley, then I can see why the glass looks half-empty. I don't share that belief. They still need a lot of things to go right. Mobley has progressed much, much faster than I thought he would, but we still have an imbalanced roster. With Sexton out, we have a gaping hole in bench depth. I absolutely think we can make the playoffs if we stay healthy and add depth in the backcourt.

For all of JBB's drawbacks, I don't think he gets enough credit for the defensive turnaround. It's not just because of Mobley. Do people forget how utterly fucking horrible we were?

I see a team on the right path that's already punching above its weight, partly because it knows it's on the right path. I'll take that.

I just walked/jogged home from the game, I'm 75 percent drunk, 25 percent angry, 69 percent horned up, and a good amount of tired, but here goes:

We're significantly less talented than every team we've lost to during this losing streak. If you disagree, you're stupid.

Talent matters in this league. It matters a fucking lot. If end of bench players were as effective as stars, there'd be no such thing as max contracts. Or stars. And you generally can't just "scheme" farty end-of-bench turds into being better than stars. If you disagree, you're stupid.

And I'm pretty fucking sick (especially at this drunken moment) of the focus on the negatives when it comes to JBB in here.

Every time we play one of these top 5-10 down to the wire and I come in here and read about how that team just basically "coasted" and "toyed" with us for 3 quarters without a care in the world before cranking it up in the 4th without ever feeling in danger, I get so mad I just want to dance! More talented teams routinely absolutely beat the brakes off less talented teams right from the tip. I know because I've seen my Cavs get fucking red assed from the word go constantly over the years. That's not happening this year. No matter how many significant players are out, we're constantly battling. Not buzzword "battling," but for real gutting shit out. And that's a testament to JBB and it's not just handwaved away because of disagreements with how much he doesn't play your favorite shitty player who shouldn't be playing in the first place.

Speaking of players who shouldn't play, I just want to say that Dylan Windler fucking sucks. I've never seen a player get so much unearned goodwill in here. It's like when Luke Jackson would get a standing ovation in the arena just for... Standing. But Windler wasn't a high pick. He's like 38 years old. He's not an Uber athlete. He just looks like he'd be a smart savvy player with a good 3-ball because he's a lanky somewhat sinewy white dude who could do it in college but there are millions of him who were great in college but shit in the league and there will be millions more. It's not automatically JBB's fault for not "putting him in a position to succeed" as though it's a forgone conclusion he has it in him. Nor for Okoro. Sometimes players just aren't good. If every damn pick panned out, we'd be the exception not the rule.

Finally, fuck these refs. And these rims!! What the freaking crap!! Why were so many goddamn layups rimming out?? Why are the goddamn refs calling fouls on zero contact and blowing the whistle fucking instantly where they ANTICIPATED contact MIGHT happen?? Why can't I watch Crowder get mauled by fucking rabid possums after he clutches this face after ZERO contact then laughs about it as he walks to the FT line??

We have to pay fucking perfect against the best of the best to pull these games out at the end, particularly when the refs are CLEARLY favoring the other side. And we're RIGHT THERE! Couple rubber rim jobs in our favor, couple shitty calls don't get shoved up our asses... We win these. We're SO CLOSE. And it's not a mark against JBB that we're not there yet... It's a testament to him that we're that close every damn game against the best the league has to offer even without our best players.