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Early 22 GM Thread! (Trade Ideas here)

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Now is not the time to sit on our hands and our prospects. Now is the time to act. Waiting another year won't make us better, it will put us a year closer to losing our biggest assets.

Its not panic, its timing.

We didn't finish 13 games out because we weren't good enough. We finished 13 games out because our rotation got destroyed. When we had to go to our pitching depth, we were forced to use Morgan, who had 5 IP in AAA two years earlier...Hentges, who had never pitched in AAA...Mejia, who had never pitched in AA...a total of 41 starts from three kids that were nowhere close to ready. This year, depending on how R5 works out, we could literally have ten SPs by mid season with more experience than those three had.



While the other division teams may add, we will automatically add Bieber, Civale, and Plesac. We are a lot closer to Chicago than most fans think. One major long term addition and one/two short term upgrades put us right at the top.

You have to be really pessimistic to dismiss this FO and this team in 2022.
 
CATS44 said:
Now is not the time to sit on our hands and our prospects. Now is the time to act. Waiting another year won't make us better, it will put us a year closer to losing our biggest assets.

Its not panic, its timing.

We didn't finish 13 games out because we weren't good enough. We finished 13 games out because our rotation got destroyed. When we had to go to our pitching depth, we were forced to use Morgan, who had 5 IP in AAA two years earlier...Hentges, who had never pitched in AAA...Mejia, who had never pitched in AA...a total of 41 starts from three kids that were nowhere close to ready. This year, depending on how R5 works out, we could literally have ten SPs by mid season with more experience than those three had.



While the other division teams may add, we will automatically add Bieber, Civale, and Plesac. We are a lot closer to Chicago than most fans think. One major long term addition and one/two short term upgrades put us right at the top.

You have to be really pessimistic to dismiss this FO and this team in 2022.
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Our biggest asset is the farm system. It's what gave you Bieber, JRam, Civale, McKenzie, Plesac, Rosario, Gimenez, Reyes, Clase, Karinchak, and Sandlin to name a few and it's about to give you a shit ton more.

I do agree that it is timing, but our idea of it is different. If JRam and Bieber won't be here or are too expensive when the time is right, then you know what they should do if they're not going to or cannot extend them.
 
Our farm system did not give us Rosario, Gimenez, Clase, or Reyes.

Prospects have never won a MLB game.

And if, as you say, the farm system is gonna give us a ton more, what do you propose we do with the ones we have? Cut them loose for no return?

But you have yet to answer the question I have asked you multiple times....lol.

At the beginning of 2021, we had sixteen MIF players/prospects in the org...all rated as 40 FVs or better. Right now ten are on the 40 man. One of them, Palacios, is moving to the OF. We can only play two MIFs at a time in Cleveland.

If you aren't willing to trade them, what do you plan to do with them all?

I'd like to know.
 
CATS44 said:
Now is not the time to sit on our hands and our prospects. Now is the time to act. Waiting another year won't make us better, it will put us a year closer to losing our biggest assets.

Its not panic, its timing.

We didn't finish 13 games out because we weren't good enough. We finished 13 games out because our rotation got destroyed. When we had to go to our pitching depth, we were forced to use Morgan, who had 5 IP in AAA two years earlier...Hentges, who had never pitched in AAA...Mejia, who had never pitched in AA...a total of 41 starts from three kids that were nowhere close to ready. This year, depending on how R5 works out, we could literally have ten SPs by mid season with more experience than those three had.



While the other division teams may add, we will automatically add Bieber, Civale, and Plesac. We are a lot closer to Chicago than most fans think. One major long term addition and one/two short term upgrades put us right at the top.

You have to be really pessimistic to dismiss this FO and this team in 2022.
Click to expand...
Disagree.

Now IS the time to sit on our prospects (not all, but most of them). They didn't protect 12 prospects (more than double than normal) just for fun. They believe in the talent of those guys and the young players they traded for.

Playing these young players and prospects will simply make us better by experience and age curve. The nitro zone is 25 to 29yo and we have many guys entering that range.

I'd trade maybe 1 or 2 of the MIF glut, one from the Chang/Miller/Clement depth, another from Arias/Freeman/Tena. I'd also make N. Jones, Lavastida, Bo Naylor, C. Vargas and the comp A pick available in a deal for a vet bat....but I'd keep as many of the upper minors 40 roster additions as possible and would rather trade prospects further away.

We're not a couple of ok'ish bats away from being a super contender, we're building this the right way while being competitive enough to react accordingly at the deadline.

What you're asking for is what the Marlins are doing, and it's not smart. It's panic mode, making moves for the sake of making moves.
 
Tondo said:
Disagree.

Now IS the time to sit on our prospects (not all, but most of them). They didn't protect 12 prospects (more than double than normal) just for fun. They believe in the talent of those guys and the young players they traded for.

Playing these young players and prospects will simply make us better by experience and age curve. The nitro zone is 25 to 29yo and we have many guys entering that range.

I'd trade maybe 1 or 2 of the MIF glut, one from the Chang/Miller/Clement depth, another from Arias/Freeman/Tena. I'd also make N. Jones, Lavastida, Bo Naylor, C. Vargas and the comp A pick available in a deal for a vet bat....but I'd keep as many of the upper minors 40 roster additions as possible and would rather trade prospects further away.

We're not a couple of ok'ish bats away from being a super contender, we're building this the right way while being competitive enough to react accordingly at the deadline.

What you're asking for is what the Marlins are doing, and it's not smart. It's panic mode, making moves for the sake of making moves.
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By the time you decide to trade prospects to become a super contender, as you call it, our present core will be too expensive to keep...and the window will have closed. You will be in a never ending cycle of acquiring kids while we trade good young vets to acquire more prospects...wash, rinse, repeat.

We have a very good, very young, very deep rotation with an elite closer. We have a solid core of position players in Jose, Franmil, Straw, Amed, and Giminez to build around. We have just about the youngest roster in baseball. And we have more prospects than we can ever play in Cleveland.

We didn't amass all these prospects on the 40 man in order to play them all in Columbus. We did so, because they are our version of money. We can't compete financially for free agents, but most orgs can't compete with us in trades, because we have a vault full of the most valuable commodity in baseball.

We are in exactly the right situation in which to make a major move. We are also in a period of rebranding, unlike anything we've ever been in....and rebranding in any industry always calls for an attention getting move.

We didn't make all the moves to acquire young talent only to let it rot in the fields.

We HAVE done it the right way. The raw material and development cycles are over. Now its time to take advantage of everything we've done since 2016.
 
Rot on the field? We will need most of those on the 40 to contribute 2022 and 2023

If you believe in the talent, you play it instead of trading it.

But I feel like they can thread the needle between trading and playing the prospects, but they won't put their prospect eggs all in one basket. We won't trade for Reynolds or Olson. Is that what you want? Or are you happy enough with Happ etc
 
Happ is not my first choice. We need more than Happ.

But we have so many eggs that we don't have to put all into one basket.

Right now we have seven 50 FV prospects....seven 45 FV prospects...ten 40+ FV prospects....eleven 40 FV prospects. We have sixteen 40 FV or higher MIFs combined in the minors and in MLB. We have plenty of eggs. What we don't have is enough productive MLB players.

We could easily trade four or five of them and still have a better than average farm system...and still have more MIFs than can ever play in Cleveland.

Or we can continue to wait and wait, while most of them shrivel up into the next Zimmer-Chang- Frazier-Bradley bunch.
 
CATS44 said:
Our farm system did not give us Rosario, Gimenez, Clase, or Reyes.

Prospects have never won a MLB game.

And if, as you say, the farm system is gonna give us a ton more, what do you propose we do with the ones we have? Cut them loose for no return?

But you have yet to answer the question I have asked you multiple times....lol.

At the beginning of 2021, we had sixteen MIF players/prospects in the org...all rated as 40 FVs or better. Right now ten are on the 40 man. One of them, Palacios, is moving to the OF. We can only play two MIFs at a time in Cleveland.

If you aren't willing to trade them, what do you plan to do with them all?

I'd like to know.
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It didn't? We got Clase in the Kluber trade. Where did Kluber come from? We got Rosario and Gimenez in the Lindor/Carrasco deal. Where did Lindor and Carrasco come from? We got Reyes in the Bauer deal. Where did Bauer come from? Doesn't matter if they were drafted or acquired via trade. They all came up through our farm system.

I did answer your question that you have asked, and I've given it more than one answer......lol. Not only have I said that we need to wait another season, I've also stated that you're one of the biggest mouths pushing "MIFers can play anywhere". You're simply not listening, but that's what you typically do so let me attempt to clear this up for you. I'm not at all against dealing from minor league depth, but I want to keep a select few. We don't know who those select few are at this time. I've also told you that you can deal from the lower levels. You can deal Jones. You can deal Bo Naylor as long as his brother goes in the deal with him, otherwise he's not available. You can deal Plesac. You can deal Rosario. There's plenty to deal, but I'm not letting guys like Rocchio, Freeman, Arias, Valera, Espino, or a few others that are close to their major league debuts go at this time. You don't have to agree with it because I don't give a shit if you do or don't.

I am willing to trade "them", I'm just not sure who is "them" at this time and I doubt Chernoff does either.

We would all like to know.
 
Tondo said:
Rot on the field? We will need most of those on the 40 to contribute 2022 and 2023

If you believe in the talent, you play it instead of trading it.

But I feel like they can thread the needle between trading and playing the prospects, but they won't put their prospect eggs all in one basket. We won't trade for Reynolds or Olson. Is that what you want? Or are you happy enough with Happ etc
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Well said Tondo. Thank you.

Yes, he wants Reynolds or Mullins and would pay a hefty price to get one of them because he thinks they alone will put us as the division favorites. Ironically, I would pay a hefty price as well, it just wouldn't be with the upper level prospects other than maybe Jones or Bo Naylor if Josh goes with him.

I do agree with CATS that there is more MIFers than will be needed. Where we part ways is I don't know which ones I would keep at this time. That's all I'm trying to say.
 
Honestly I think I'd take Palacios over Happ for 2022.
 
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