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Darius Kinnard Garland

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What is Darius Garland's Ceiling?

  • One Time All-Star

    Votes: 21 12.5%

  • Occasional All-Star

    Votes: 23 13.7%

  • 5-6 Time All-Star

    Votes: 31 18.5%

  • Perennial All-Star

    Votes: 39 23.2%

  • An All-NBA Team or Two

    Votes: 22 13.1%

  • Perennial All-NBA Teamer

    Votes: 20 11.9%

  • Occasional MVP Candidate

    Votes: 10 6.0%

  • Perennial MVP Candidate

    Votes: 2 1.2%

  • MVP, Baby!

    Votes: 10 6.0%

  • Being Jim Chones

    Votes: 13 7.7%
  • Total voters
    168
Adam said:
Garland is playing great. I can't wait to see what happens when someone who can shoot 40% plays on the wing
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I'll show some clips when Windler plays instead of Stevens/Okoro. Night and day. Having Mobley and Allen together also complicates things.

What he is able to do in those circumstances is amazing.. he has 4 guys in the lane every time.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
He can. The question is whether that is getting the most out of his talents, and I'm not sure it is.
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It took Curry a while to get his off-ball game to where it is. I think once Mobley becomes a consistent playmaker, we will see some Garland/Mobley two-man games similar to Curry/Draymond where Garland plays off-ball as a sniper and Mobley on-ball as a point-forward/center.
 
PIP said:
In no way is it… The ability to use screens with the ball in his hands. The midrange, the 3, the ability to finish in the paint and more importantly his ability to find his bigs at the rim….

Some of the ‘eyes in the back of the head’ passes this dude has recently made have been amazing…

There is literally no reason to find someone to take the ball out of his hands… I’m all for finding another wing and someone that can get a bucket — but in no way am I looking for anyone to take away the biggest offensive weapon we have….
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How much value do you get just from giving the defense something else to deal with and digest for a while? I think DG is the best player with the ball in his hands, so in some sense, you always want him to have it, but from time to time putting him off ball and letting someone else attack the defense from another angle in another way will prevent the other team from figuring DG out completely and making it really difficult for him to do his thing.

Whether that would be Sexton, Rubio, Rondo, or whatever for the rest of this year and the future, I think you always want to have a good way to change things up and give them a different look.
 
BimboColesHair said:
It’s not though, not by some crazy amount.

Games with Sexton Garland averaged:

70.3 touches per game
6 minutes of ball possession per game
5.11 seconds per touch
4.83 dribbles per touch

Without Sexton Garland has averaged:

86 touches per game
7.3 minutes of ball possession per game
5.09 seconds per touch
4.68 dribbles per touch

So nothing changed but the touches he got, which isn’t surprising as the team lost its leading scorer when Sexton went down and someone had to take those touches and Sexton was replaced by 2 guys who don’t handle the ball in the starting lineup in Okoro and Stevens. And really those numbers have skyrocketed recently due to the Rubio injury.

Also, the additional issue I have with the bolded is it is acting like Sexton controlled the ball in the brief time he played this year. He didn’t.

For the season this year Sexton was getting:

48.3 touches per game
3.4 minutes of ball possession per game
4.21 seconds per touch
3.66 dribbles per touch

Which is night and day from how he was used in 2020/21 when he was getting:

76.6 touches per game
5.9 minutes of ball possession per game
4.59 seconds per touch
4.05 dribbles per touch

Guy was seeing almost half the touches, half the total time per game with the ball in his hands, held it for less time, dribbled less every time he had it.

Garland (and Rubio) was dominating the ball WITH Sexton, to the tune of nearly twice as much time with the ball as Sexton, which was a dramatic change from the 2 years prior when they were pretty much even across the board on their touches.

Tired of people forgetting or choosing to ignore that we were already seeing shades of this Garland with Sexton and Sexton in a completely different role being used completely different this year in comparison to his 1st 3 seasons as a pro. Shame he didn’t get a chance to get comfortable in that new role either.
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Sexton could play with garland. No doubt. Issue is $. I don’t think we can tie up that much $ with sexton at this point And I have always been a big supporter of his
 
Derek said:
You’re right, JB has shown an affinity for 2-PG lineups.

A few things though:
1) how much if that is out of necessity due to a lack of viable wings?
2) how much of it is because both Rubio and Rondo are large PG who can defend the 2 as well as most 2’s?
3) Sexton isn’t a PG

It’s too bad we weren’t able to get a true extended look at Sexton in the role we want him to play. They 100% should have found an actual back up PG last season to start that transition.
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The optimist in me wants to say that Sexton has never had teammates that he could effectively work on his playmaking skills with. But this year, Garland has made huge strides in so many facets, including his ability to play off the ball, as evidenced by how often JBB runs two-PG lineups.

We don't necessarily need Collin to see the floor as well as Darius, Ricky, or Rajon do -- we just need him to, when asked, not stop the ball and let the offense flow. What he may lack as a true facilitator and playmaker he more than makes up for by being both a perimeter threat and a threat to blow by defenders that Rubio/Rondo have never been. Before his unfortunate injury this season, I think Collin was absolutely showing signs of being less of a ball-stopper.

This post is more fitting for the Sexton thread, but I want to point out that a major reason why I think Sexland can still work (I'm not advocating for them to start together) is because of the staggering improvement that Garland has shown this season.
 
bs80 said:
The optimist in me wants to say that Sexton has never had teammates that he could effectively work on his playmaking skills with. But this year, Garland has made huge strides in so many facets, including his ability to play off the ball, as evidenced by how often JBB runs two-PG lineups.

We don't necessarily need Collin to see the floor as well as Darius, Ricky, or Rajon do -- we just need him to, when asked, not stop the ball and let the offense flow. What he may lack as a true facilitator and playmaker he more than makes up for by being both a perimeter threat and a threat to blow by defenders that Rubio/Rondo have never been. Before his unfortunate injury this season, I think Collin was absolutely showing signs of being less of a ball-stopper.

This post is more fitting for the Sexton thread, but I want to point out that a major reason why I think Sexland can still work (I'm not advocating for them to start together) is because of the staggering improvement that Garland has shown this season.
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Be a challenge mentally for Sexton. When injured he was shooting more than anyone. On the team he returns to, he should probably be 4th in shots per game. I don't think it works if he is the 6th man and wants to shoot every possession to make up for playing less. He needs to really change what he was before the injury. I think he could be good at it but he needs to accept the new role.
 
Derek said:
You’re right, JB has shown an affinity for 2-PG lineups.

A few things though:
1) how much if that is out of necessity due to a lack of viable wings?
2) how much of it is because both Rubio and Rondo are large PG who can defend the 2 as well as most 2’s?
3) Sexton isn’t a PG

It’s too bad we weren’t able to get a true extended look at Sexton in the role we want him to play. They 100% should have found an actual back up PG last season to start that transition.
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I think it's a mixture of reason 1 and our three bigs lineup. In a typical NBA lineup, you have ball-handlers/playmakers at both guards and small forward positions. Lauri isn't a SF like that, so we essentially need two point guards to maximize both our size advantages via playmaking and the fact that the team will only have two traditional ball-handler spots on the court (PG, SG) instead of three (PG, SG, SF). Asking DG to do it all game is tough, so JBB runs two PG sets. Rubio at SG worked ridiculously well because he's a bigger PG and played excellent defense.
 
wnorman51 said:
How much value do you get just from giving the defense something else to deal with and digest for a while? I think DG is the best player with the ball in his hands, so in some sense, you always want him to have it, but from time to time putting him off ball and letting someone else attack the defense from another angle in another way will prevent the other team from figuring DG out completely and making it really difficult for him to do his thing.

Whether that would be Sexton, Rubio, Rondo, or whatever for the rest of this year and the future, I think you always want to have a good way to change things up and give them a different look.
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Agreed… Throw it in the post
 
avs2000 said:
Sexton could play with garland. No doubt. Issue is $. I don’t think we can tie up that much $ with sexton at this point And I have always been a big supporter of his
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The Cavs have a decision to make as to whether they want to ever clear enough cap space to go after a top tier FA. I personally don't think Koby goes that route, and if that is the case, then it's perfectly fine to pay Sexton so long as his contract does not become untradeable.

If Koby thinks that a 23-year-old Sexton can play effectively with this improved version of Garland for years to come, then I would not have any issue offering him the same deal that was on the table for him last offseason -- not sure what exactly the figure was but I'm guessing it was around $100 mil over five years.
 
There seems to be an awful lot of thought put into best case scenario projections, to the point of discounting a full two-year sample size and some transparently serious issues on the defensive end, about him starting again next to Garland, but almost no thought put into what happens if it doesn't work, or the Cavs decide, for any number of reasons, that it's not something they even want to attempt.
 
CalBuckeyeRob said:
Be a challenge mentally for Sexton. When injured he was shooting more than anyone. On the team he returns to, he should probably be 4th in shots per game. I don't think it works if he is the 6th man and wants to shoot every possession to make up for playing less. He needs to really change what he was before the injury. I think he could be good at it but he needs to accept the new role.
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He already was in a new role and clearly had accepted it. On that Yak-Bak again, I don't understand how everyone believes we saw the same old Sexton as his first 3 seasons in his brief time played this season and that he would refuse to change his game. He already did and was.

FGA rate his lowest since his rookie season, tracking stats showing the ball was being taken out of his hands considerably in comparison to his first 3 seasons as a pro. And sure, he led the team in shot attempts (someone has to), but he led by essentially 2 FGAs per game over 4 other players.

When he went down this was the shot breakdown, per game:

Sexton - 13.7 FGA
Markk - 12.1 FGA
Rubio - 11.9 FGA
Garland - 11.7 FGA
Mobley - 11.5 FGA

There was no dominant shot taking player on the team when he was healthy, it was pick your poison, here's 5 guys who take 11 to 13 shots a night with Allen a shade under 10 FGAs per game himself during that stretch. Flip him with Garland there and with Sexton's efficiency scoring the ball I am sure he'll still have a huge impact scoring within the flow the team as a whole plays with this season. You're talking all of 2 shots per game, that isn't exactly a huge deal.

I don't get the idea or belief on this forum and among this fanbase that Sexton a) would refuse to play a different role other than the primary focal point on offense or b) has to change how we was playing in order to fit in with the current team. He already clearly was asked to and accepted both things and was working towards that.
 
PIP said:
In no way is it… The ability to use screens with the ball in his hands. The midrange, the 3, the ability to finish in the paint and more importantly his ability to find his bigs at the rim….

Some of the ‘eyes in the back of the head’ passes this dude has recently made have been amazing…

There is literally no reason to find someone to take the ball out of his hands… I’m all for finding another wing and someone that can get a bucket — but in no way am I looking for anyone to take away the biggest offensive weapon we have….
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Well, they trap him a lot. So taking the ball out of his hands so he can get it back in an advantageous position is good. If he needs some rest, and he can play off the ball for a bit and use his spacing ability that is ok too. If he isn't actually getting any rest/benefit then I agree with you.

Still, his ability to play on and off makes him more dangerous and can use his gravity in different situations.

Mainly though, I am going to want to see the offense run through Mobley at times and having Garland there ready for the kickout is going to be awesome. Not every time, but if we can have Garland, Mobley and player X as playmakers, that is basically unguardable and Allen will get dunks all the time.
 
BimboColesHair said:
He already was in a new role and clearly had accepted it. On that Yak-Bak again, I don't understand how everyone believes we saw the same old Sexton as his first 3 seasons in his brief time played this season and that he would refuse to change his game. He already did and was.

FGA rate his lowest since his rookie season, tracking stats showing the ball was being taken out of his hands considerably in comparison to his first 3 seasons as a pro. And sure, he led the team in shot attempts (someone has to), but he led by essentially 2 FGAs per game over 4 other players.

When he went down this was the shot breakdown, per game:

Sexton - 13.7 FGA
Markk - 12.1 FGA
Rubio - 11.9 FGA
Garland - 11.7 FGA
Mobley - 11.5 FGA

There was no dominant shot taking player on the team when he was healthy, it was pick your poison, here's 5 guys who take 11 to 13 shots a night with Allen a shade under 10 FGAs per game himself during that stretch. Flip him with Garland there and with Sexton's efficiency scoring the ball I am sure he'll still have a huge impact scoring within the flow the team as a whole plays with this season. You're talking all of 2 shots per game, that isn't exactly a huge deal.

I don't get the idea or belief on this forum and among this fanbase that Sexton a) would refuse to play a different role other than the primary focal point on offense or b) has to change how we was playing in order to fit in with the current team. He already clearly was asked to and accepted both things and was working towards that.
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Sexton is one of the most efficient scorers as well. He should get shots. He should shoot any good shot.
 
CavsKermit said:
There seems to be an awful lot of thought put into best case scenario projections, to the point of discounting a full two-year sample size and some transparently serious issues on the defensive end, about him starting again next to Garland, but almost no thought put into what happens if it doesn't work, or the Cavs decide, for any number of reasons, that it's not something they even want to attempt.
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I think you've got a point about people assuming a best case scenario, but I also don't think Sexton starting next to Okoro is on the table any more anyway. The issue will be how well they can fit together offensively when they're playing together even if they aren't both starting.
 
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