Darius Kinnard Garland

Sexton is too small to guard the 2 and not enough vision or feel to run the 1. That's the rub. Those things wont change.
Remember all the trade talk, people questioning how we were going to replace Sextons 25pts a game?
I was a bigger fan of Sexton than Garland. However the emergence of Garland has been amazing.
I think we need to use Sexton as a 6th man with less money or as a trade piece to find a wing or better fit.

Cavatt said:

Well, they trap him a lot. So taking the ball out of his hands so he can get it back in an advantageous position is good.

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Yeah that’s not Sexton tho... Need a willing passer

PIP said:

Yeah that’s not Sexton tho... Need a willing passer

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I don't agree with this. Once I did, but things change. Sexton literally started the season with his teammates making only 17 of his first 52 potential assists. Directly impacted his assist totals for the whole season now that he is out.

Cavatt said:

I don't agree with this. Once I did, but things change. Sexton literally started the season with his teammates making only 17 of his first 52 potential assists. Directly impacted his assist totals for the whole season now that he is out.

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Which is fine. But I need to see it…Once Sexton shows he’s a willing passer (doesn’t need to be a pass first guy) then I’ll believe it…

As of now to me he’s a 2 guard in a PG body and he’s more inclined to look to score than make the right read… Whereas Garland has been able to prove that he is a PG, in a PG body and I trust him at that position…

I don’t trust Sexton as a 2guard cause he’s not built for that physically and I’m not entirely convinced he’s a backup point guard cause he’s never proven to be that consistently

So Sexton has work to do in my eyes…. Garland has solidified and proven himself as what he is… Sexton should have been able to do so a year ago (prove where Garland is today ) and that’s just in regards to prove what he is/was…Especially the 2nd half of last season…And if he did so in the eyes of some than he had to prove to you that he’s a 2guard. (25pts 3ast) At a 6’1” guard….

The Human Q-Tip said:

I don't think the Garland before/after numbers are insignificant -- that's 16 more touches per game , and 1.3 more minutes since Sexton went out. So when Sexton comes back, either Garland's numbers drop -- which is the entire issue I'm raising -- or they stay the same and Sexton is now down to only 32 touches and 2.1 minutes v. 76 touches and 5.9 minutes last year. Those are big differences.

The point is that while we hoped pre-injury that Sexton's efficiency, etc., would adjust to his new role, that hasn't started happening. And we still don't know if it will, especially if Garland is going to stay in this more dominant role in which he has been very successful. It's just an unknown that we likely can't answer until next season, and that is unfortunate.

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This is so true. I am hesitant on Sexton because pre injury he wasnt playing great. scoring was 16 a game, not the 20+ we are remembering and shooting was awful. We didnt give Sexton time to adjust because the injury happened so quick, and 11 games hardly counts, but he was having to learn all over again and I am not sure the "Barbosa" role works because Barbosa was long and a good defender.

At best on this team Sexton is a "Microwave" off the bench. I very useful role, but I am not sure one that makes him happy. There is allot to love about Sexton, his attitude, how hard he works, his ability to score....but when put with Allen, Mobley and especially Garland, I really dont see a fit. No fault of Sexton, but when we got Mobley, everything changed in how to construct this team. I am not sure when to trade Sexton, now, sign in trade or at the deadline next season, but I think he should be traded just because of fit.

PIP said:

Which is fine. But I need to see it…Once Sexton shows he’s a willing passer (doesn’t need to be a pass first guy) then I’ll believe it…

As of now to me he’s a 2 guard in a PG body and he’s more inclined to look to score than make the right read… Whereas Garland has been able to prove that he is a PG, in a PG body and I trust him at that position…

I don’t trust Sexton as a 2guard cause he’s not built for that physically and I’m not entirely convinced he’s a backup point guard cause he’s never proven to be that consistently

So Sexton has work to do in my eyes…. Garland has solidified and proven himself as what he is… Sexton should have been able to do so a year ago (prove where Garland is today ) and that’s just in regards to prove what he is/was…Especially the 2nd half of last season…

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I think Sexton, who you are 100% correct in him not being a true PG, made that step showing his willingness to pass last year though.

Your eyes are telling you something different, and that is fine. Passing figure jumps he made last year were nothing to scoff at though. 38 passes made per game to 50 passes made per game from 19-20 to 20-21, 6.2 potential assists per game to 9.2 potential assists, assist % went from 15.1% to 22.6%. Even his raw APG numbers saw a 50% increase, from 3 to 4.5 APG. Everything there suggests a guy who became a much more willing passer.

The big thing we are seeing with Garland is him taking on a different mentality, that this is his team, his offense, he is going to run it and put it in a position to succeed when he is on the floor, whether that is facilitating or now looking for his own shots at a much higher rate. That was something I wanted to see from him with Sexton, as I think that makes both him and Sexton significantly harder to guard. Garland's reliance on Sexton to score and nonaggressive playstyle when he was paired with Sexton capped that groups ceiling significantly.

BimboColesHair said:

The big thing we are seeing with Garland is him taking on a different mentality, that this is his team, his offense, he is going to run it and put it in a position to succeed when he is on the floor, whether that is facilitating or now looking for his own shoots at a much higher rate.

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This may exactly be what it is. Darius Garland is running the team. He’s making the right play at the right time and everyone is engaged cause they even believe he’s gonna make the right play….

Again for me it’s the Steve Nash/Barbosa effect (mid 2000’s) and I understand that’s not the best example…

Each guy on any given night can give you 21 points and 8-10 ast — but it’s how and when they did it and the confidence you had in each…

Barbosa could fill in for Nash and some nights drop 27pts and 10ast but his ability to come off the bench and give you 14pts and 4ast was far greater spelling Nash or sometimes playing along side him…(and you knew his role and what to expect)

This is clearly Garland’s team in every aspect and the players expect him to make the right play for either himself or them— whereas with Sexton I feel they’re watching him, expecting him to create for himself first and then perhaps get them involved…

It may very well be an unfair critique criticism of Sexton, but that’s the vibe I get when watching his style of play/leadership….

The Human Q-Tip said:

I think he's right - at least offensively. Their defensive liabilities can be offset by timing - you play them when the opposing lineup can't take advantage of them.

But ultimately, they have to be able to mesh offensively when they're sharing the floor, or there's no point in keeping both of them. You can't pay Sexton only for the limited minutes during a game when Garland isn't on the court. So they have to be able to coexist offensively on the court at the same time in a way where they aren't dysfunctional.

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Re-reading it I see he wasn't saying it wouldn't work only if it didn't work. From my perspective I see no reason why SexLand won't work in limited minutes with Sexton spelling Garland for when Garland rests, then play him when needed for matchups and instant offense.

Cavatt said:

Sexton is one of the most efficient scorers as well. He should get shots. He should shoot any good shot.

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some people infer that sexton is a chucker. The man is not a Jordan Clarkson, not at all

cavsfever said:

Even that doesn’t show he’s contributing to winning basketball…look at Westbrook

I’m just skeptical he’ll ever be more than a mediocre PG. What has he done so far beyond stacking up regular season stats, leading the Cavs from being one of the worst teams in the NBA to being a clear playoff team, and taking over game after game in the fourth quarter? I just can’t see it.

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Yeah but look at all those triple doubles that Steph has averaged during a season over his career. That is the mark of greatness - averaging a triple double over a season. All the great PGs have done it - Magic, Steph, Nash. This is the hallmark of greatness and no PG can ever be great without averaging a triple double at least once in their career.

PIP said:

This may exactly be what it is. Darius Garland is running the team. He’s making the right play at the right time and everyone is engaged cause they even believe he’s gonna make the right play….

Again for me it’s the Steve Nash/Barbosa effect (mid 2000’s) and I understand that’s not the best example…

Each guy on any given night can give you 21 points and 8-10 ast — but it’s how and when they did it and the confidence you had in each…

Barbosa could fill in for Nash and some nights drop 27pts and 10ast but his ability to come off the bench and give you 14pts and 4ast was far greater spelling Nash or sometimes playing along side him…(and you knew his role and what to expect)

This is clearly Garland’s team in every aspect and the players expect him to make the right play for either himself or them— whereas with Sexton I feel they’re watching him, expecting him to create for himself first and then perhaps get them involved…

It may very well be an unfair critique criticism of Sexton, but that’s the vibe I get when watching his style of play/leadership….

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Excellent comp.

CavsKermit said:

All jokes aside, our spacing is already problematic, especially against good defensive teams, without Sexton driving the ball into the painted area, leaving his feet and having no plan B, 20 possessions a game. Even before Garland showed this type of growth, Sexton was on borrowed time once we drafted Mobley.

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Ridiculous to make the assumption that Sexton will do that with this group of players. Take your projections somewhere else. Sexton improves floor spacing with his efficient outside shooting, and he can drive and kick well also.

The Human Q-Tip said:

I think you've got a point about people assuming a best case scenario, but I also don't think Sexton starting next to Okoro is on the table any more anyway. The issue will be how well they can fit together offensively when they're playing together even if they aren't both starting.

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One of the mantras I kept repeating after the KPJ debacle was that players have a big say in terms of how things turn out. First there's the issue of whether Sexton is good with becoming a sixth man, not saying he's okay with it order to get a contract from the Cavs that no other team is willing to offer, but actually reconciled with coming off the bench. Because learning he's not okay with it after you're obligated to pay him on an above-market multi-year deal would be sub-optimal to say the least. The other issue is that if Sexton accepts becoming a sixth man, will he still be interested in involving his teammates in the offense, or will he view himself as having made the necessary sacrifices already and when he's in the game, it's time to get his. Guys like Love, Lauri, and Windler have greatly diminished value if they're frozen out of the offense.

buzzdog said:

Ridiculous to make the assumption that Sexton will do that with this group of players. Take your projections somewhere else. Sexton improves floor spacing with his efficient outside shooting, and he can drive and kick well also.

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I'm projecting off of his usage rate over three years and where the overwhelming majority of those shots were taken on the court. You're projecting based from within the bottom of a hopes and wishes jar.

avs2000 said:

some people infer that sexton is a chucker. The man is not a Jordan Clarkson, not at all

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Correct. The way Sexton is described is similar to Clarkson... Clarkson might be one of the most frustrating Cavaliers I've ever seen play. He and Drummond in recent memory.

(And then he went on to be 6MOY with the Jazz.)