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Darius Kinnard Garland

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What is Darius Garland's Ceiling?

  • One Time All-Star

    Votes: 18 10.9%

  • Occasional All-Star

    Votes: 21 12.7%

  • 5-6 Time All-Star

    Votes: 31 18.8%

  • Perennial All-Star

    Votes: 40 24.2%

  • An All-NBA Team or Two

    Votes: 22 13.3%

  • Perennial All-NBA Teamer

    Votes: 20 12.1%

  • Occasional MVP Candidate

    Votes: 11 6.7%

  • Perennial MVP Candidate

    Votes: 2 1.2%

  • MVP, Baby!

    Votes: 10 6.1%

  • Being Jim Chones

    Votes: 13 7.9%
  • Total voters
    165
LeeBuckeye said:
I would have Dennis Rodman as a ceiling raiser for Jordan's Bulls instead. Ray Allen was a ceiling raisers for the Celtics and Heat championship seasons.

One of the great floor raisers ever is Chris Paul. He may not take you over the top but he'll provide a very competitive team every season and played on both end (scoring and defending) while being the teams main distributor and top 2 scorer every season in the league.
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Yeah Chris Paul is a great example. Harden is to me too. I am not sure how much the Nets ceiling was raised by acquiring him, but we see immediately how important he was to the Rockets
 
The Oi said:
You have no way of knowing this.
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My cousins roommate's best friend once hung out with Jarrett who is best friends and told them they visit the planetarium together all the time. Garland believes in science, no way he is a flat earther....my cousin's roommate's best friend would never lie to me.
 
weepinwillow said:
I don't think bottomless fries is a good idea for you, Mr. Kemp.
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Such an assumption, Red Robin has bottomless salads and broccoli too.

You are such a fucking hater, just because his dad weighs 400lbs and is anything but "bottomless" doesnt mean his son its the fries. :thefinger:
 
Lee said:
Such an assumption, Red Robin has bottomless salads and broccoli too.

You are such a fucking hater, just because his dad weighs 400lbs and is anything but "bottomless" doesnt mean his son its the fries. :thefinger:
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Ha, well I just saw the picture of Shawn. I'd say the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree, but given Shawn's penchant for leaving young ladies with packages in every NBA port, my guess is it's not an apt saying here.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Lee
Cavatt said:
Well, we would be way less likely to get to the playoffs without Darius. So that is floor raiser. He gets the team performing better globally.

Harden
Lebron
Lowry
Doncic
Giannis
Pippen
Curry

are all floor raisers. Now that doesn't mean they can't be ceiling raisers, but it means you will basically get to the playoffs with those guys no matter who is around them.

People are using Ceiling raiser as clutch guys who can get it done and score against anybody

Ray Allen
Jordan
Kyrie
Kobe
Paul Pierce
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So the only "ceiling raisers" are score-first guys? That just makes zero sense to me.

To be honest, I'd argue that guys like Kyrie, or AI, or Trae Young, are more "floor-raiser" types. They are good enough as individual players to prevent a team from sucking completely, but the holes in their game will prevent the team as a while from reaching its full potential.

So guys like Bill Russell, Dennis Rodman, Ben Wallace, even Jokic, don't really increase the chances of their teams winning a title because they aren't primary scorers who "get buckets"?

I just don't see that at all.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
Can someone explain to me the difference between a "floor raiser" and a "ceiling raiser?". Because it seems inarguable to me that we would do better in the playoffs with Garland than without him, and isn't doing better in the playoffs having a higher ceiling?
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That's because it's being used inappropriately in this context. Westbrook and Randle are floor raisers in that they help otherwise bad teams in the regular season but not in the playoffs. You can run the offense through them in the regular season, but doing so in the playoffs gets you beat when defenses focus on shutting them down because those guys don't really do anything else that helps their team and they eat a lot of possessions.

Garland is a lot closer to being a ceiling raiser than either Kyrie or Sexton. His court vision, passing ability, and spacing all add value to the team regardless of who is on it. Kyrie has never raised a ceiling on a team that didn't have Durant or LBJ to take the ball out of his hands when doing so was required. The Celtics played better with Rozier running the offense than Kyrie. Sexton is similarly situated with a team like the Sixers or Bulls, where Simmons/Ball ran the offense and took the tougher defensive assignment, he could, theoretically, raise that team's ceiling. But it's pretty charitable to call a guy a ceiling raiser when that will only happen if they're paired with a handful of NBA players.

Also, there's reason to be skeptical about how much Sexton would raise a team's ceiling even under ideal conditions. While, Kyrie has demonstrated that he's clutch in big games against good defensive teams, Sexton has not. If you remove the two regular season Nets games last year, where Kyrie was the primary defender on him, the evidence of Sexton being clutch is really, really scarce, and against good defensive teams, it's basically nonexistent.
 
I don't think it's necessarily binary as superstars can be both floor raisers and ceiling raisers. Some of it is narrative based as we can call Trae Young a floor raisers because we've seen it while Kyrie isn't because he didn't carry those early Cavs teams to the playoffs. We did see him compliment the ultimate hybrid in LeBron by taking the "assassin" role in ISO situations. His game never grew beyond that which is why he's a ceiling raiser for me because his skillset saw him hit a clutch 3 to seal a championship and would've helped eased some of the scoring load KD had against the Bucks last season.

What I mean by narrative based is DeRozen is a floor raiser but did that make Kawhi a ceiling raiser in Toronto or just simple an even higher floor raiser by simply being a better more well rounded player (on-ball, off-ball defense, more efficient on offense despite being a slightly inferior passer).


The Human Q-Tip said:
So the only "ceiling raisers" are score-first guys? That just makes zero sense to me.

To be honest, I'd argue that guys like Kyrie, or AI, or Trae Young, are more "floor-raiser" types. They are good enough as individual players to prevent a team from sucking completely, but the holes in their game will prevent the team as a while from reaching its full potential.

So guys like Bill Russell, Dennis Rodman, Ben Wallace, even Jokic, don't really increase the chances of their teams winning a title because they aren't primary scorers who "get buckets"?

I just don't see that at all.
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GSW took it to another level when they replaced David Lee with Draymond Green, he's the best modern day ceiling raiser to me.

I see Dennis Rodman, Ben Wallace as ceiling raisers while Jokic is a floor raiser than can be a ceiling raiser as well. Jokic is a foundational piece while the others guys are very elite add-ons despite being HOF level players.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
So the only "ceiling raisers" are score-first guys? That just makes zero sense to me.

To be honest, I'd argue that guys like Kyrie, or AI, or Trae Young, are more "floor-raiser" types. They are good enough as individual players to prevent a team from sucking completely, but the holes in their game will prevent the team as a while from reaching its full potential.

So guys like Bill Russell, Dennis Rodman, Ben Wallace, even Jokic, don't really increase the chances of their teams winning a title because they aren't primary scorers who "get buckets"?

I just don't see that at all.
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Well I did list mostly scorers. I think floor raisers tend to affect the game in more ways than one and elevate others. Just setting good screens is a floor raiser lol. I think those guys you listed tend to be in the floor raiser category than the ceiling raiser.

Ceiling raisers are usually "good players on bad teams" type of guys. They need another star to cover up their warts

Floor raisers are consistent, Ceiling raisers get hot.

LIke most things I don't think it is clear cut and a guy can be both.

It's what I think about Sexton. I think he can make this team better, but he wasn't able to make a bad team good.
 
Cavatt said:
Well I did list mostly scorers. I think floor raisers tend to affect the game in more ways than one and elevate others. Just setting good screens is a floor raiser lol. I think those guys you listed tend to be in the floor raiser category than the ceiling raiser.

Ceiling raisers are usually "good players on bad teams" type of guys. They need another star to cover up their warts

Floor raisers are consistent, Ceiling raisers get hot.

LIke most things I don't think it is clear cut and a guy can be both.

It's what I think about Sexton. I think he can make this team better, but he wasn't able to make a bad team good.
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I was responding in particular to this:

Cavatt said:
People are using Ceiling raiser as clutch guys who can get it done and score against anybody

Ray Allen
Jordan
Kyrie
Kobe
Paul Pierce
Click to expand...

I'll just say that this whole "ceiling raiser" thing has me confused, and leave it at that.
 
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