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Darius Kinnard Garland

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What is Darius Garland's Ceiling?

  • One Time All-Star

    Votes: 18 10.9%

  • Occasional All-Star

    Votes: 21 12.7%

  • 5-6 Time All-Star

    Votes: 31 18.8%

  • Perennial All-Star

    Votes: 40 24.2%

  • An All-NBA Team or Two

    Votes: 22 13.3%

  • Perennial All-NBA Teamer

    Votes: 20 12.1%

  • Occasional MVP Candidate

    Votes: 11 6.7%

  • Perennial MVP Candidate

    Votes: 2 1.2%

  • MVP, Baby!

    Votes: 10 6.1%

  • Being Jim Chones

    Votes: 13 7.9%
  • Total voters
    165
Anyone have ESPN insider so we can check John Hollinger’s most recent FRCR stats?

I know he had top 50 Floor Raisers and Ceiling Raisers ranked for the last couple years.
 
Had a convo with some LA friends, they do not think Garland is an all-star/ becoming a superstar and I'm called the homer :chuckle:

If Garland was in the LA market, he'd get 100 times more the recognition and they'd be singing his praises. Also placing the superstar label on the masterpiece of his game.
 
Sir'Dom Pointer said:
Rondo's injury is kinda weird to me. I don't know what's going on.. they aren't telling us some things.
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I don't think it's that weird.

Old player went from not playing at all, to not able to be around the facility and in isolation due to a positive Covid test, to playing 20+ minutes a night in 3 games in 4 days and has some hammy issues.

Hammy issues can linger, but he's been participating in every shootaround since the OKC game. Can't imagine it's that bad and might be more in line with their "return to competition" designation they've been giving guys who are coming off the Covid list.
 
Lee said:
Kyrie has extreme physical and shooting talent. He is the best handles probably ever, yet he just isnt a winner by himself. He is one of the most frustrating players ever to root for. You see the talent, but he is such a selfish player, doesnt know how to run an offense, but he can be the offense.

Darius is everything Kyrie is not. Sefless, runs an offense, tries on defense, ect. Garland is just easy to root for, plus he believes the Earth is a Sphere.
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To be the fussy pedant that I am, it is not a sphere. It is an ellipsoid
 
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Reactions: Lee
Lee said:
Kyrie has extreme physical and shooting talent. He is the best handles probably ever, yet he just isnt a winner by himself. He is one of the most frustrating players ever to root for. You see the talent, but he is such a selfish player, doesnt know how to run an offense, but he can be the offense.

Darius is everything Kyrie is not. Sefless, runs an offense, tries on defense, ect. Garland is just easy to root for, plus he believes the Earth is a Sphere.
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I feel like the Cavs sometimes have to beg Darius to look for his shot.

That’s not his natural instinct, despite what RCF thought post-draft.
 
On the floor raising vs ceiling raising issue. A player that is a floor raiser improves the lowest possible result of a team. A ceiling raiser will improve the upper end result of a team. There have been some good high level examples, but role players can fall into either category too.

A player like Lou Williams or Trez is a floor raiser. He wins you a ton of regular season by beating up weak teams in the regular season and teams with little prep. In the playoffs, that doesn't mean much, but he is good enough to get you there.

Someone like Robert Horry, Kyle Korver, or Cedi Osman is a ceiling raiser. They are not a player that wins you games on their own, but you put them on a team with other smart dudes and they can fit in and boost the overall ceiling of your team. GSW did an amazing job with this during the offseason by basically only signing a ton of good ceiling raisers (Bjelica, Otto, Iggy) which pushed them from a borderline playoff team (with guys like Marquisse Chriss) to a top 5 team.
 
Real Deal said:
Had a convo with some LA friends, they do not think Garland is an all-star/ becoming a superstar and I'm called the homer :chuckle:

If Garland was in the LA market, he'd get 100 times more the recognition and they'd be singing his praises. Also placing the superstar label on the masterpiece of his game.
Click to expand...
In fairness, they're usually wrong when they prematurely anoint their young guys budding superstars. See, Kuzma, THT, etc.
 
foucault87 said:
On the floor raising vs ceiling raising issue. A player that is a floor raiser improves the lowest possible result of a team. A ceiling raiser will improve the upper end result of a team. There have been some good high level examples, but role players can fall into either category too.

A player like Lou Williams or Trez is a floor raiser. He wins you a ton of regular season by beating up weak teams in the regular season and teams with little prep. In the playoffs, that doesn't mean much, but he is good enough to get you there.

Someone like Robert Horry, Kyle Korver, or Cedi Osman is a ceiling raiser. They are not a player that wins you games on their own, but you put them on a team with other smart dudes and they can fit in and boost the overall ceiling of your team. GSW did an amazing job with this during the offseason by basically only signing a ton of good ceiling raisers (Bjelica, Otto, Iggy) which pushed them from a borderline playoff team (with guys like Marquisse Chriss) to a top 5 team.
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This not what the vast majority of people mean when they talk about floor raisers versus ceiling raisers. These are just role players you're talking about. When people talk about floor/ceiling raisers they're talking about the ceiling a team will have with that player being a core piece, or even the piece. When people call a player a floor raiser, they mean that guy might get you into the playoffs, but you're not going anywhere and almost always it's because the player is high usage, not good enough to overcome better defenses efficiently, and contributes little else but scoring. As a team's offense is built around that player taking a lot of shots, and that player's value comes from taking a lot of shots, it caps a team's ceiling.

Now it will be interesting to see if a guy like DeRozan coming off the bench for the Bulls, actually breaks free of that in a different role, or if Lowry can raise the Heat's ceiling as a complementary piece, but those two guys were prime examples of floor raisers when they were the best players on the Raptors. Lowry made it work with Leonard in a way that Westbrook has been unable with Durant, Harden, Beal, and now LBJ. I'm down the Knicks post season chances because I don't think Randle can be such an integral part of a contending team's offense, his defense is suspect, and he jacks up their spacing because he needs Noel or Mitchell to play next to him.
 
CavsKermit said:
This not what the vast majority of people mean when they talk about floor raisers versus ceiling raisers. These are just role players you're talking about. When people talk about floor/ceiling raisers they're talking about the ceiling a team will have with that player being a core piece, or even the piece. When people call a player a floor raiser, they mean that guy might get you into the playoffs, but you're not going anywhere and almost always it's because the player is high usage, not good enough to overcome better defenses efficiently, and contributes little else but scoring. As a team's offense is built around that player taking a lot of shots, and that player's value comes from taking a lot of shots, it caps a team's ceiling.

Now it will be interesting to see if a guy like DeRozan coming off the bench for the Bulls, actually breaks free of that in a different role, or if Lowry can raise the Heat's ceiling as a complementary piece, but those two guys were prime examples of floor raisers when they were the best players on the Raptors. Lowry made it work with Leonard in a way that Westbrook has been unable with Durant, Harden, Beal, and now LBJ. I'm down the Knicks post season chances because I don't think Randle can be such an integral part of a contending team's offense, his defense is suspect, and he jacks up their spacing because he needs Noel or Mitchell to play next to him.
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Yeah the term is usually used for high usage players, but it can apply to role players too. Randle is a clear example of floor raiser bt not a ceiling raiser.
 
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