Start the Debates: Who is your Top-25 All-Time?

I don't want to write a memoir for each selection I make since there's 25 of these guys, so I'm just going to throw my list out there and leave it open for scrutiny.

1. LeBron James
2. Michael Jordan
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Hakeem Olajuwon
7. Magic Johnson
8. Larry Bird
9. Tim Duncan
10. Kevin Durant
11. Kobe Bryant
12. Oscar Robertston
13. David Robinson
14. Moses Malone
15. Kevin Garnett
16. Dirk Nowitzki
17. Stephen Curry
18. Chris Paul
19. Scottie Pippen
20. Dwyane Wade
21. Charles Barkley
22. Karl Malone
23. Jerry West
24. John Stockton
25. Elgin Baylor

No, I didn't forget about Bill Russell.

Great idea for a topic. Will have to think about it and update this post in a few hours.

#1. Michael Jordan (non debatable)


The rest.


#2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
#3. LeBron James
#4. Magic Johnson
#5. Wilt Chamberlain
#6. Kobe Bryant
#7. Hakeem Olajuwon
#8. Larry Bird
#9. Tim Duncan
#10. Shaquille O’Neal
#11. Dirk Nowitzki
#12. David Robinson
#13. Karl Malone
#14. Dwayne Wade
#15. Steph Curry
#16. Charles Barkley
#17. Kevin Garnett
#18. Oscar Robertson
#19. Kevin Durant
#20. Chris Paul
#21. Scottie Pippen
#22. Moses Malone
#23. Dr. J
#24. Isiah Thomas
#25. Giannis

foucault87 said:

Great idea for a topic. Will have to think about it and update this post in a few hours.

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Okay, so my update. I am pretty sure I posted a similar list elsewhere, so if anything is different from before, its because I forgot what i put down. Number rankings don't make a lot of sense to me, so I will put them in tiers. Unranked within tiers

Tier 1 (4 players)
Lebron
MJ
Russell
Kareem

Tier 2 (5 players)
Bird
Wilt
Duncan
Magic
Shaq

Tier 3 (6 players)
Kobe
Oscar
West
Hakeem
Moses
Steph
KG

Tier 4 (10 players)
Dirk
CP3
Havliceck
Scottie
Chuck
Wade
Dr J
Nash
Zeke
Giannis

Tier 4 itself is probably bigger than this but I cut it off at the first 10 I thought of (apologies to Karl Malone, John Stockton, and Joker)

foucault87 said:

Okay, so my update. I am pretty sure I posted a similar list elsewhere, so if anything is different from before, its because I forgot what i put down. Number rankings don't make a lot of sense to me, so I will put them in tiers. Unranked within tiers

Tier 1 (4 players)
Lebron
MJ
Russell
Kareem

Tier 2 (5 players)
Bird
Wilt
Duncan
Magic
Shaq

Tier 3 (6 players)
Kobe
Oscar
West
Hakeem
Moses
Steph
KG

Tier 4 (10 players)
Dirk
CP3
Havliceck
Scottie
Chuck
Wade
Dr J
Nash
Zeke
Giannis

Tier 4 itself is probably bigger than this but I cut it off at the first 10 I thought of (apologies to Karl Malone, John Stockton, and Joker)

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I respect the Hondo appreciation.

Russell in the top-4? Have to disagree. Don’t see any way, whim, or hope that Wilt isn’t above him.

Prime d Robinson better than tim Duncan. No one gives him credit

The first three are hard. At times I've got Kareem 1st and I'll say Isaiah Thomas agrees with that. The longevity matters. Jordan at his best was the best but taking years off to play ball and retiring fairly early hurts a but.

LeBron feels like splitting the baby between the two.

I'll think on it a but but really, to me, it's those 3 clearly at this point in their own class.

Stark said:

I respect the Hondo appreciation.

Russell in the top-4? Have to disagree. Don’t see any way, whim, or hope that Wilt isn’t above him.

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As much as I clown Bill Simmons, I think he is a really good basketball historian, if sometimes biased. The argument he makes for Russell > Wilt in his Book of Basketball is pretty bullet proof in my mind.

Wilt stacked up a lot of counting numbers, but routinely lost the head-to-head with Bill Russell. His stats were noticeably worse vs Russell than almost every other center he crossed over with (except Cavs great Nate Thurmond). Russell unsurprisingly had the career head-to-head in terms of regular season and playoff victories. I think it is notable that Wilt's greatest career achievement (67 title) was the one time he did beat Russell.

I'm interested in what your argument for Wilt is. Don't get me wrong, I am a big Wilt fan, but I have a hard time putting him in the same tier as MJ (highest peak), Kareem (long career and very high peak), LeBron (literally 20 year peak), and Russell (most rings + winningest player).

1. MJ
2. LeBron
3. Bill Russell
4. Wilt
5. Kareem
6. Magic
7. Shaq
8. Kobe
9. Bird
10. Duncan
11. Hakeem
12. Oscar
13. West
14. Hondo
15. Dr. J
16. Curry
17. KG
18. Dirk
19. Scottie
20. Isiah
21. Moses
22. Stockton
23. Karl Malone
24. Barkley
25. Elgin

Below are my top 24 in no particular order. Why 24? Because I think there are 24 players that absolutely have to be in the top 25. There are a bunch of players that can be in the discussion but these 24 have to be in it.

Lebron
MJ
Wilt
Russell
Kobe
Kareem
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan
Oscar
West
DrJ
Curry
KG
Dirk
Moses
Stockton
Malone
Barkley
Baylor
Durant
Giannis

Others to discuss
Mikan
Pettit
Pippen
David Robinson

Phills14 said:

Below are my top 24 in no particular order. Why 24? Because I think there are 24 players that absolutely have to be in the top 25. There are a bunch of players that can be in the discussion but these 24 have to be in it.

Lebron
MJ
Wilt
Russell
Kobe
Kareem
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan
Oscar
West
DrJ
Curry
KG
Dirk
Moses
Stockton
Malone
Barkley
Baylor
Durant
Giannis

Others to discuss
Mikan
Pettit
Pippen
David Robinson

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Good way to do it.

If I were to critique I think I'd add Gary Payton and Steve Nash to that bottom list and my first guy off the top list would be Barkley.

Too lazy to list 25:

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. LBJ
4. Kareem
5. Russell
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Kobe
9. Wilt
10. Duncan

Phills14 said:

Below are my top 24 in no particular order. Why 24? Because I think there are 24 players that absolutely have to be in the top 25. There are a bunch of players that can be in the discussion but these 24 have to be in it.

Lebron
MJ
Wilt
Russell
Kobe
Kareem
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan
Oscar
West
DrJ
Curry
KG
Dirk
Moses
Stockton
Malone
Barkley
Baylor
Durant
Giannis

Others to discuss
Mikan
Pettit
Pippen
David Robinson

Click to expand...

That's pretty good. We have similar lists except you don't have Isiah or Hondo and have some more recent ones like Durant and Giannis. My most recent player is Curry because he revolutionized the game, is clearly the greatest 3 point shooter ever, and has been the leader of several championship teams. I'd certainly have Durant and Giannis in my top 30, but I still want to see what they do with the remainders of their careers before putting them in the top 25. Others I thought about including were Wade, Robinson, Mikan, and Pettit. The latter two are tough because it's hard to evaluate players from as far ago as the 1950s. I suppose one could argue that Mikan's innovations, and being the first true superstar of the game, are enough to put him in the top 25. I know my mom would insist upon it

Some great lists here! As I noted above, I personally have a really hard time ranking players. Depending on what you value, I think you can make a strong argument for multiple different orderings and I am not sure any one valuation is better than the other, thus my tiering system. Either way, this is some great discussion and I hope we keep it going!

PIP said:

#1. Michael Jordan (non debatable)

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i mean clearly it is debatable its debated every day